I need help from GMA Europa owners

Thanks Scott.

Tom- the Audiopoint cones may be designed to be "direct coupled", but that may not be the requirement for the system in which they are to be tried. The tape I mentioned is very thin- just a few thousands inch of adhesive, only. You think this interface would be a big issue, compared to the problem at hand? This is a 40+ lb cabinet on top of that thin layer, driven by a 6" woofer.

I postulated direct coupling could be part of the problem, with what to listen for, pro and con. Do you have a suggestion for Richs, and what he might listen for, when trying a particular 'device'?

Couple more ideas for Richs: Consider cleaning the contacts of your cables and jacks, even the digital ones. Rubbing (isopropyl) alcohol- the kind without added lanolin, with a cotton swab and pipe cleaners, should be enough to knock off the sulphurs and other compounds deposited in a house which cooks, where people breathe, etc. However, use it sparingly, as it contains water. Shut down all the power if you are feeling particularly sloppy. The next better stuff would be Caig De-Ox-It, thru PartsExpress.com.

Some of what you are hearing could certainly be the soft dome vs. hard dome, but I don't think that's the entire answer. The Europa's foam grill obscures some of the clarity, adding an overall haze, from blunting leading edges, and smearing out trailing edges. This may be part of what you are hearing, especially if you're used to hearing the Thiels without their cloth grills.

By removing the Europa's foam grill, the tweeter is too loud by .5dB, audible after 10+ CDs. We would send 2 tweeters measuring 0.5dB softer. But then the speakers would be slightly dull with the grills back in place... let me know.

See if all the screws are snug, including the three 2mm Allen bolts near the dome of the tweeter (don't put a lot of torque on those). Note the two different-size screws around the woofer.

Any chance the tweeters half fried? I've done that here.

Do the speakers need to finish breaking in?


Remember that fuzz or haze is a broadband problem, not a single-frequency resonance. Some 'solutions' induce single-tone resonances, like placing metal cones under a CD player (heard on a few notes in the right-hand of the piano).

Hope you can get some resolution to this (out of this?).

Best,
Roy

Songwriter (this is my last stab at this) I'm not knocking the Europas. They are for the money, (even, for, more money) a great speaker. Is that clear now. I recommended (Sistrum stands) which I believe will help them sound better than you've ever heard them. A couple of others hear Starsound, Sistrum and they gag. Whattayagonna do. I'm excited about what I own and love. I am blessed with a confident pair of tympanics. Very hard to disuade my ears from what I hear, but am always willing to listen, and have, on various ocassions, changed my mine. I was set, etched in stone, excited out of my mine, about purchasing the JmlabsMico Bes. Listened to them for an hour and freaked out. Best darn monitor (easily) these ears had ever heard. Money wasn't a factor purchasing these babies. Maybe a little wife pressure. Then I heard the Caravelles. Reluctantly. Well, you know which I chose. I'm teachable and don't take myself so serious. This is a great hobby and we all love our stuff. OK the boxing comment was unfair. It's over, and I made amends for it. Move on big guy. You enjoy yours and I will enjoy mine. I'll never say the Caravelles are better speakers than the Europas. I'll say I prefer them MUCH! more. Fair enough? Have a nice weekend. It's beautiful here, in Point Lookout and I'm going to have a great day. You do the same.
peace,
]warren

What we have here are hi rez speakers sitting upon low rez devices.. Sand is a storage medium, lead is a storage medium, rubber is a storage medium, mdf is a storage medium, adhesive compounds are storage mediums, all types of speaker cabinet materials are storage mediums. All of the previous impede the flow, to some extent, some small some large,the transmission of energy. If you have a speaker, even one with a high mass enclosure it is to all a benefit, to direct away and to provide a pathway for resonant energy, excess energy, unused energy to be sped to ground. In no way do you want to slow down the exit of this noise nor give it a place to accumulate and a chance to be stored and then discharged along with the intended signal. If you are to use Audiopoints the speaker needs to sit upon the flat surface of the cone with the point facing down upon the resting surface.. If the resting surface is wood, glass or acrylic then there needs to be placed between the point tip and the surface a APCD coupling disc. This disc seems to clarify the surface coupling area and increases the focus and speed of the speaker..I have been using these techniques for some years, long before I became a dealer for Starsound..Tom

Thanks Tom-
I'm not sure that I follow you on two points:

How is either sand, lead or rubber a storage medium? They each turn HF vibrations into heat. Since stored heat can never be reconstituted as coherent energy, i.e., as signal (as a ringing), these materials cannot store this HF energy as vibrations. Am I missing something?

Also, to me, Energy "sped to ground" means turning it into heat. Is that what you mean by getting the noise to exit?

Sorry I need the clarification, but audio vocabuluaries are still developing for all of us.

Since I'm asking
What is an APCD?

What do you hear happen if points are up instead of down?

Thanks,
Roy

Roy take a visit to Audiopoints.com I have been using their products since 93' and have recently become a dealer.The points and platforms truly make a profound audible improvement. Brent Riehl of Starsound designs products that seem to present a direction for vibration to flow to and thru..My words..What results is a much cleaner sound,more natural more dynamic with greater focus and a much larger stage ,again my words..Unlike the use of lead or rubber materials which seem to kill the dynamics soften the focus and reduce the stage. My words and my personal experiments. An Apcd disc is shown on the Audiopoints web page/Starsound page and is a surface protective device and much more. I have found the discs in some cases improve the coupling and the sound when using Audiopoints or a Sistrum platform on some surfaces or with very light weight components, 5 lbs or so.. my Melos preamp is a prime example. Tom