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Thiel replacements

I'm thinking about purchasing replacements for my Thiel 3.5s. For some reason, I can't get the speakers to disappear. I get a center image, whether its vocals or guitar, but that's about where the soundstage ends. All other instruments appear to be coming directly from the speakers. It really stinks! Is this just a characteristic of Thiel speakers? I don't see how it could be, though, as many people think very highly of them.

I don't think the room is the problem, but here are the dimensions. They are along the short wall. The room is 13' X 19', the speakers are 8' apart, I sit 9' from them, and they are about 5' from the front wall. The left speaker basically has no side wall next to it, as it's next to a large opening which connects the living room to the dining room. The right speaker is about 3' from the side wall. They are currently slightly toed in, which seems to be the best. I have tried them at all different severities of toe.

Speaker polarities are correct, unless of course there is a problem inside one of the speakers themselves, but I doubt it. The EQ box had just been gone over by Thiel, so it should be ok.

My components are: Jolida jd100 cd player, Anthem Pre1L preamp, Classe CA-200 amplifier, and all cables are Jon Risch designs which utilizing Belden coaxial cable. The ICs are twisted pairs and the speaker wires are cross connected coaxial cables.

I don't know if I should consider new speakers, spend several more weeks moving these around the room, or ?????? Any suggestions would be great, whether they are tweaks or whatever. I look forward to hearing what the pros have to say! Hopefully it will help my system perform the way it should.

Thanks,
kevin
ketchup
ozfly
887 posts
 
Hi Kevin. From my experience, Thiels are a bit tricky when it comes to getting a wide soundstage out of them. I was never as happy with them in that regard as I am with my current setup (I owned the 2.3's and the 6's). So, it might not hurt to audition other speakers. However ...

Having one of the speakers next to a large opening will not help matters. Can you move them back by a couple of feet to allow for some direct reflections from a side wall? That could help.

Also, I'm not sure about your speaker wires. Thiels are pretty sensitive to the right wires in my experience. It wouldn't hurt to try some different ones. I would recommend home trials so you don't commit to buy until you try. My first suggestion would be MIT cables. But, read some past threads for other fine recommendations.

Finally, I would also suggest trying speaker cones under the Thiels. Big, big difference. You will hear it immediately. There are lots of places to get these, but Thiel usually supplies some with their speakers. This would be an inexpensive and highly effective tweak that should help with the soundstage.

Good luck.
chuck
201 posts
 
Ketchup,

Ozfly has given some good recommendations. Thiels are very finicky when it comes to cables. Also, you may want to try them along the long wall. I had my thiel's set up with almost no toe in. I had much better success and thought that was the consensus among thiel owners, but I may be wrong here. Anyway, I would suggest contacting the cable Company and doing an in home audition of cables. You will find it very helpful.

hope this helps,

Johnny
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drubin
3,265 posts
 
How long have you had the Thiel's, Kevin? From your post, I can't tell if you have been happy with the speakers but have soured on them, or if they are a new addition and are not working out for you.

Another question: what characteristics of the Thiels DO you like?
david99
1,467 posts
 
The 3.5's like plenty of space,especially between them.
I have mine ~10 feet apart with just a slight toe in.
I sit ~ 12 feet from the speakers and get a wide and deep stage.At times (recording dependent) I get imaging ~ 2 feet to the outside plane of the speakers.
Mine sit on Thiel supplied spikes.
I have tried several speaker cables inc.Harmonic Technology Pro-11's, Kimber 8TC and others and settled on MIT T-2's.They gave me the widest and deepest stage.The MIT's sounded the best in all areas also.
Even though you say your speakers are in phase,it doesnt sound like an in phase stage you are describing.
Have you tried switching ONE speaker cable at the amp end? Switch the + with the neg.on one cable only.
If your bass EQ was bad,either it would just be dead or making a horrible noise.
Im surprised Thiel had you send the bass EQ.
Check for proper phase..do what ozzfly suggests and let us know.
david99
1,467 posts
 
BTW,if it is your room,different speakers wont remidy the problem.
I would keep the Thiels and put some work into your room and different speaker placement.
Set up properly,the 3.5's are tough to beat,esp.at the used prices.
I love mine!
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