Rogue 66 vs Rogue 99

Duddy,I still dont know why you had an impedence prob. with a 99,it drives my Pass just fine.Also,I think you may be mistaken about the cost of a line-3.The cheapest used I have seen is $2500.New dudes go for $5000. As far as your music-direct besting the 99? Whats the new cost of a music-direct? Would the price ratio be similar say to your direct verses a BAT VK 50SE.Which do you think would be better? As far as Mark not being upfront about the impedence.Why would he lie about it? Ihave spoken to him and he has assured me his specs.are correct.He designed it,he should know.My 99 sounds killer! Very quiet unit,and superb bass.Im sorry you didnt have a better match.You really are missing out on a great pre-amp!!

hi dave,

yure rite about the price of the s/f line 3 - sorry, dunno what i was thinkin' - mebbe i was tinking about the retail price of the rogue, w/fono... $2750, shipping included, was the lowest price quote i got on this prior to buying the melos (it was also a preamp i was considering).

as far as cost goes, music-directors' last retailed for $4600 new (line-stage only - $7400 for l/s & fonostage). but, i paid only $2k for my line-stage. i'd love to try a bat vk 50se, but as i can't afford one even used, it's kinda a moot point for me. if yure tryin' to say that the melos *should* out-perform the rogue cuz its retail price is more than double the rogue's, well yure right - it should, & it does, imho! :>) but the cary slp98, which is comparable in price to the rogue, also outperforms the rogue, imho, & is more flexible, at least for me.

as far as mark & the rogue, i'm not sayin' anyone's lyin'. all i know is that 100 ohms output impedence means that placing a 100 ohm resistor across the outputs should correspond to a 3db drop in volume - which is the change in level that's generally considered to be the smallest change audibly distinguishable by a casual listener - anything smaller becomes gradually more difficult to perceive. well, i placed a 2.2k-ohm resistor across the outputs of the rogue, & the drop in level, while not measured w/a db-meter, was *easily* noticeable - it was *at least* 3db, indicating a much higher output impedence. as i said before, it could also be the 17'-long interconnects that were contributing to the problem in my system.

i'm glad you enjoy the rogue, i know there are others out there who think it's great, too, & i'm sure y'all's hearin' is yust fine. not to be disrepctful, but i yust tink there's others out there that are better, for the same money, especially if yure willing to purchase used.

regards, doug

Duddy,I have an invitation to extend to you.Meet me in Pa.we will go to the Rogue joint and Mark can run his "tests" on a 99.If his tests show his specs are correct you can buy me lunch.If you are correct you can still buy me lunch.Mark has offered to prove to me his specs are dead on.I have faith in his E.E.ability.I live 6 1/2 hours from Rogue's plant.Your drive is probably closer.At the least we could have a chat and a meal.You can order crow! Let me know :)

hi david,

interesting proposal. to be honest, i tink it'd be more reasonable to have the output impedence of the rogue tested by an independent lab - prolly a lot less driving inwolved, too! ;~) as for me, w/a wife, young children, the alfa club, & the pantera club pulling for my free time, i'm not sure i could swing something like this, yust to prove a point.

the only reason the impedence-issue came up is because, when discussing the sonics of my rogue w/one of the most well-respected tube designers in the industry, he said it sounded like an impedence problem, & he said there was *no way* a mu-follower tube design could have such a low output impedence, unless it was a hybrid design. (rogue, in fact, doesn't publish the output impedence of the preamp, this designer obtained it from rogue by calling & asking if his amps would have any impedence-matching problems w/the rogue.) it was he who suggested i try placing resistors across the outputs of the preamp to check for actual volume-level change. doing so corroberated his beliefs, & testing of other preamps in this same manner, further corroborated them. lower output-impedence preamps, in fact, required lower-walue resistors to get an audible wolume-drop.

as mentioned in my previous post, a 2.2k-ohm resistor casued a noticeable wolume drop when placed across the rogue 99's outputs. this same walue resistor caused *no* change in wolume when placed across a cary slp98 preamp - it took a 1k-ohm resistor to hear any volume decrease. the melos, with *very* low output impedence, had no volume drop w/even a 500-ohm resistor across the outputs.

this test is wery easy to try at home - all ya need is a small "y" interconnect hooked up between your amp & preamp - then take a resistor & hold one end on the center-connector, the other end on the outside-connector of the free rca plug. the lower the output impedence of your preamp, the smaller-value resistor it will take to perceive a wolume-level drop. you mite wanna try this on yer preamp at home before taking it *anywhere* to be tested! ;~)

i don't need conwincing that the rogue 99's output impedence, whatever it is, is much higher than the cary slp98, the version of which i tested, was rated at 850 ohms - i audibly tested both, as described above. (i mistakenly said 600 ohms previously - i believe that this is correct for cary's most recent production, the unit i tested was older.) i suggest ewe do the same, prior to driving a day, to have this checked. and, as i said before, i'm sure there's a qualified tech (much closer then at rogue audio), that could test this for you w/proper equipment, if ya don't wanna try the audibility test.

regards, doug

ps - i noticed i have gotten an inordinately high number of negative feedback on my posts here. i guess it's due to my hostile, inflammatory, uncivil manner, & not due to the fact that some of ewe may not like my opinions... ;~)

Dud,you are none of the above,just telling it the way you see it.Im just a bit confuseds the 99 drives my Pass 3 with ease and the bass is KILLER!! I know people say the Pass 3's bass sucks but I know better.Sorry you cant make the trip.You can still buy me lunch sometime!