Rogue 66 vs Rogue 99

also is the Rogue "colored" or is it that the SF signature has the well reported "uninvolving emotional"
traits as the "regular" line 2?

i had a hot-rod version of the rogue 99, & yes, it's coloured. besides, nice as mark o'brien is, he ain't up-front about the output impedence of his preamp. he states its 100 ohms - real-world experience told me 2400 ohms is more likely. i, too, had extremely poor bass response, most likely due to a long cable-run between the 25k-ohm input-impedence of my active x-over, and the high output-impedence of the rogue. i, too, had noise problems w/this unit - ewe could hear any rheostat-light in the house being adjusted thru my speakers! took a while to figure out what *that* was! ;~) while the rogue had better soundstage depth than the linn kairn it replaced, the kairn bested it in all other areas.

not satisfied w/the rogue, but still wanting that *toob* sound (those colourations *were* kinda nice!), i then tried the cary slp98. ($1300, used). better than the rogue in all areas, especially in accuracy & frequency extension. (and this was their stock wersion - they, also, offer a *hot-rod* wersion.) no impedence problems w/this unit, which is rated at 600 ohms output impedence, which my field-testing confirmed.

i'd have stopped my preamp search here, but yust after i got the cary, i came across a melos music-director at a reasonable price, & i yust had to try it - i *loved* a melos sha-gold i'd heard several years ago, but couldn't afford it then. well, the melos is in another league all-together, imho. at ~$2k used, i don't see how it could be beat. (regarding s/f pricing, btw, i dunno about the s/f line-2, but the line-3 can be had brand-gnu for <$2.4k, delivered...)

oh, one more thing - both the cary & the melos have a tape monitor, which the rogue doesn't have. i like this for my dbx-3bx, which i can now keep out of the signal, except when in use. not possible w/the rogue, so i dint have it hooked-up. also, the cary & the melos have balance controls, which the rogue doesn't have... and, regarding the rogue 66, if ya get the built-in fono, don't ya have to lose the balance control?

Duddy,I still dont know why you had an impedence prob. with a 99,it drives my Pass just fine.Also,I think you may be mistaken about the cost of a line-3.The cheapest used I have seen is $2500.New dudes go for $5000. As far as your music-direct besting the 99? Whats the new cost of a music-direct? Would the price ratio be similar say to your direct verses a BAT VK 50SE.Which do you think would be better? As far as Mark not being upfront about the impedence.Why would he lie about it? Ihave spoken to him and he has assured me his specs.are correct.He designed it,he should know.My 99 sounds killer! Very quiet unit,and superb bass.Im sorry you didnt have a better match.You really are missing out on a great pre-amp!!

hi dave,

yure rite about the price of the s/f line 3 - sorry, dunno what i was thinkin' - mebbe i was tinking about the retail price of the rogue, w/fono... $2750, shipping included, was the lowest price quote i got on this prior to buying the melos (it was also a preamp i was considering).

as far as cost goes, music-directors' last retailed for $4600 new (line-stage only - $7400 for l/s & fonostage). but, i paid only $2k for my line-stage. i'd love to try a bat vk 50se, but as i can't afford one even used, it's kinda a moot point for me. if yure tryin' to say that the melos *should* out-perform the rogue cuz its retail price is more than double the rogue's, well yure right - it should, & it does, imho! :>) but the cary slp98, which is comparable in price to the rogue, also outperforms the rogue, imho, & is more flexible, at least for me.

as far as mark & the rogue, i'm not sayin' anyone's lyin'. all i know is that 100 ohms output impedence means that placing a 100 ohm resistor across the outputs should correspond to a 3db drop in volume - which is the change in level that's generally considered to be the smallest change audibly distinguishable by a casual listener - anything smaller becomes gradually more difficult to perceive. well, i placed a 2.2k-ohm resistor across the outputs of the rogue, & the drop in level, while not measured w/a db-meter, was *easily* noticeable - it was *at least* 3db, indicating a much higher output impedence. as i said before, it could also be the 17'-long interconnects that were contributing to the problem in my system.

i'm glad you enjoy the rogue, i know there are others out there who think it's great, too, & i'm sure y'all's hearin' is yust fine. not to be disrepctful, but i yust tink there's others out there that are better, for the same money, especially if yure willing to purchase used.

regards, doug

Duddy,I have an invitation to extend to you.Meet me in Pa.we will go to the Rogue joint and Mark can run his "tests" on a 99.If his tests show his specs are correct you can buy me lunch.If you are correct you can still buy me lunch.Mark has offered to prove to me his specs are dead on.I have faith in his E.E.ability.I live 6 1/2 hours from Rogue's plant.Your drive is probably closer.At the least we could have a chat and a meal.You can order crow! Let me know :)