Transparent , Kubala , Luminous , or RS Poiema

or is a carly simon box set the new reference standard for critical listening?

Since I was the one who made reference to this as a musical source for component audition, I thought I'd inject a few comments:

Each day I play different music and it just happened to be this when I compared some cables. What exactly is wrong with Carly Simon music as a valid tool here? Do I need to use an "audiophile" recording or listen to someone's predefined music library to validate the sonic differences that I hear between components? She has an incredible voice, great range, and in many songs that also contain piano, this is in fact a great source to evaluate harmonic structure, piano articulation, decays and surprisingly enough, dynamic contrasts. And the LP is even more impressive.

Do you know what real instruments sound like

Yes, in fact I was at the Minneapolis Orchestra just last week for a Berlioz, Durati, Brahms, Tchaikovsky concert. And two things I heard were immediately clear: 1) so many systems that I have heard have far more high-frequency information than at such a concert; 2) we have a long way to go to produce the textures and decays of massed strings.

How far apart are your speakers?

About 9 feet, center to center....SoundLab A1. They are about 5 feet into the room.

How close do you sit?

Sometimes about 4 feet in front (thanks Jadem6 for making me aware of the magic here), and other times 8-9 feet.

What kind of front end?

Clearaudio Ref TT with Koetsu RWS or Clearaudio Accurate cartridge into Aesthetix Io phono stage via Stealth Phono cable.

Balanced or single ended?

Balanced from Io to Callisto to Rives PARC. Then RCA to CAT JL-3 Sig amps.

Have you owned a vast assortment of gear and cables?

Yes until I finally learned that tuning a system through the use of non-linear cables, something that many people refer to as synergy, is not the way to assemble a music system.

The best stuff requires proper setup and system synergy to shine

Thanks, I'll try to keep this in mind. And again, what many people refer to as synergy, I think of as bandaiding and attempting to compensate for flaws elsewhere. However, this can be very effective to assemble quite an enjoyable system of midfi gear.

There is way too much focus on tonality here. But synergy, or balance as I like to think of it, can have much to do with finding products that excel in areas (like no other products) such as dynamic contrasts, portrayal of space, low-level resolution, etc. This to me is where a decision of a this-vs-that comes into a final purchase and not that a product has more bass or treble energy, etc.

sometimes a cable can be horribly bad and yet make a mal-adjusted system sound alot better

Funny you should mention this. As Joe Kubala pointed out to me when he was at my home, the MIT EVO 350 IC and the Coincident TRS speaker cable, both very clearly colored cables, actually worked quite well together; he was quite impressed at this. But one without the other, when used with his far more tonally-neutral cables, clearly showed the flaws of the cables I had used. And a comparison with Purist cables resulted in the same outcome.

My experience has found that nothing can beat a well tuned system that utilizes networked cables

My experience indicates something much different. Are either of us right or wrong? No. After hearing the K-S, Purist, Jade and Stealth cable products, I have no interest to deal with networked cables. Those boxes are a royal pain as well.

The problem is most people haven't the foggiest idea of what a live unamplified band sounds like sans processing

I do not know where you get your information about "most pepole", but the bottom line is .......... who cares if people have heard this or not. We all have our own musical preferences and we assemble an audio system that allows us to enjoy our music, amplified or not. And this is what it's all about.

Well said. Dave_b, you deserved that, and then some.

Jafox, you say:

Yes until I finally learned that tuning a system through the use of non-linear cables, something that many people refer to as synergy, is not the way to assemble a music system.

Can you elaborate? You seem to be saying that linear cables are the key, but couldn't the same linear/non-linear argument be applied to other components? And how do you know which cables truly are linear (beside Joe Kubala saying that his are)? Which manufacturers don't make this claim? Are all the linear ones as expensive as K-S and Stealth?

Can you elaborate? You seem to be saying that linear cables are the key,

No, I am simply saying that compensating for a system's resultant tonality flaws is not best served by applying tonally colored (non-linear cables) to achieve a perceived synergy.

but couldn't the same linear/non-linear argument be applied to other components?

Absolutely. But with cables it is more evident, especially when many of the same type are in the system. An additive or subtractive signature becomes more and more evident as each one is inserted into the system. And this is easy to confirm by trying such an IC cable in the line-stage's tape loop.

And how do you know which cables truly are linear (beside Joe Kubala saying that his are)?

I am not going by what Joe told me, I am reporting what I heard in my own system as each of my cables was replaced one-by-one by a K-S cable. The listening session lasted nearly 5 hours. And after Joe left my home, still with his cables here, I was able to play for another week with these, and mine and several Purist cables that had arrived that week. Listening tests with the other cables later that week confirmed what I had observed when Joe was here - the cables I had been using did indeed have some serious colorations.

Which manufacturers don't make this claim?

Good point, and that is why I pay little or no attention to claims, and instead I audition such products in my own system.

Are all the linear ones as expensive as K-S and Stealth?

I never intended to imply the Stealth cables' sonic attributes here. I have not done the same kinds of tests with their ICs and Speaker cables yet. But from the few Stealth cables I have heard here, and have since purchased, they have become the benchmark for all other cables to compare. I do hope to hear these vs. the Jade cables soon. Initial impressions with these is that they are mighty good.

As for finding that tonally neutral cable that is not so expensive, this might not be so difficult. The problem here is that it is difficult if not impossible to retain all the rest of the strengths that come with the higher-priced cables. Again, frequency-response is only a fraction of the attributes to be evaluated here. The capabilities of the Io/Callisto/JL-3 electronics makes it immediately evident when a cable destroys the dynamics and dimensionality of the music. And the Stealth cables have made me very aware of the magic still lurking in these electronics. A good front end and revealing speakers helps. 8-)

Thanks.

I suggest that synergy may still be a factor in this way: depending on the components in one's system, the cables that "destroy the dynamics and dimensionality of the music" will not always be the same, nor will those that preserve those characteristics always be the same. I'm not certain of this, but I suspect it's true.

Drubin, I guess it comes down to how we define synergy and also how we avoid getting trapped into choosing components, particularly cables, for the sake of correcting other flaws in our system. How often do we see a forum here where someone is asking for a cable that has more bass or may bring more emotion to their otherwise uninvolving system. Such a priority seems a bit goofy....unless the cable they are currently using is severely flawed relative to the other elements in the system.

I've played with many line stages, phono stages and amps, all tubed gear here, to know that at least the NBS, K-S, Purist and now Stealth cables have a consistent "house" sound from component to component. The system reacts much the same way as to whether or not it is an IC or PC of the same brand/model.

Putting aside the tonality issues for which people seem to focus on to match cables and components, I have found that cables that excel to bring through the spatial and dynamic characteristics of the music are consistent with any component. I may notice varying degrees of tonal peaks and valleys between the cables, but decaying notes, placement of musicians on the stage, or the initial strike of a piano note is either clearly there or not with each cable. Perhaps my findings would be very different with ss gear but I highly doubt it.

The hybrid Counterpoint NPS400 amp that I use now and then as a backup amp reacts the same way to the above cables as do the Wolcott and CAT amps. And the CAT Ultimate II that I had on loan for a few months reacts the same way to cables as does the Aesthetix Io/Callisto. Drop in Dominus cables here and these preamps respond the same way: greater dynamic contrasts and low-end extension vs. the NBS Statement. You can still hear the significant differences between the CAT and the Aesthetix. The refined cables allow me to hear both of these components to new levels. But the cables do not influence which component I ultimately purchase as the set of pros/cons between the two preamps remains consistent no matter cable is used to compare the two.