Brinkmann vs TW Acustic

I had an interesting experience years ago - when calibrating a Townsend power supply ( checking internal voltages, bias etc ) the sound opened up considerably. Smoother, more natural, much larger sound stage. There was no measurable change in speed. The improved sound was purely down to running the power supply at the correct voltages internally - changes of about 0.1-0.3 of a volt.
The change in sound was like going from an Audio Technica $500 MC to a Koetsu Black - it was not subtle.

Syntax, you did not answer my question. I will ask it one last time. Are you saying that SME supplies more accurate turntables to professional musicians and conductors (and reviewers) than they do to the general public? Like you implied with your story about BMW giving testers faster cars?

I agree with you that turntable speed should be checked with the stylus in a rotating grove (with VTF in your terms). Are you aware that the KAB strobe allows for this, at least for about an inch at the outside of the LP? The KAB may not be as accurate as the Timeline, but it does allow for one to use his own record clamp, record weight, neither, and different thickness LPs while providing the same result. According to a post above, the Timeline does not offer this flexibility.

BTW, I watched Steve at SOS test a Brinkmann Bardo turntable with his Timeline. You are again mistaken. It passed the test (by quick visual inspection with no markings) only over a 5-10 second period when the red dot fell on a piece of paper hand held about 12" from the Timeline. When the paper held in place for the test was removed, the DIRECT DRIVE Bardo failed the test after a few seconds because the red dot was suddenly hitting the wall which was now about four feet away. The dot drifted.

Steve and I did the same test on my turntable which at the time was a BELT DRIVE design and it did better than the DD Bardo, but it was still not perfect. My table had no speed adjustment which was one reason I sold it for a table which is adjustable. My new BD table does now hold speed according to the KAB while an LP is playing at both 33 and 45 RPM. Perhaps it would fail the Timeline. I have not tried it. I do think the timeline is heavier than my record clamp, so that might effect results. Also I don't know which record thickness I should use for the Timeline test.

I don't understand your point about an iPod. Of course people enjoy the device with earbuds and get emotional satisfaction. That is not our subject here. Our subject here is speed accuracy and the ability of orchestra conductors (or BMW M5 drivers) getting accurate performance numbers. Great conductors have some of the best ears around. And they can hear accurate pitch. I have seen them during rehearsals talk to individual musicians about this. If they say that their belt drive turntables have accurate pitch, I tend to believe them. They may also enjoy MP3 files in earbuds on an iPad, just like the kid down the street does. That does not meant the iPad is reproducing anything accurately.

I also agree with Syntax and Atmasphere that the way to hear speed instabilities is to listen for low level sounds and ambience. That is an excellent observation and quite audible.

Peterayer, you also brought up a good point about moving back the distance of a surface to monitor Timeline's blinking light. The further back the distance, the more finely you can calibrate the speed as it will let you see the slight deviation in speed even more.
I don't know when you will reach the threshold where you will not hear or appreciate the difference.
It is a great tool for anyone who is compulsive obsessive though because the more you play with it, the more you will find way to acheive that steady blinking light. At one stage, because of significant difference in HRX center weight and Timeline weight, I figure out that I could get more accurate reading if I stick Timeline on top of HRX clamp with blutac to do the reading as the difference when I actually playing will only be the weight of Timeline itself rather than HRX weight minored Timeline weight which would be higher. All the while measuring it, I was praying that Timeline would not fly off and break my cartridge.
At the end, I felt better that I acheived closer ideal speed but did I really hear anything differently, not really!
If I eyeball the amount of drift by TW vs drift on Micro Seiki with 200g records or without 200g records (equal to approximate weight with and without Timeline on platter), they are actually quite close.
May be TW actually will hold more accurate speed than Micro Seiki if I adjust Micro Seiki to the exact speed with Timeline and not using Timeline or any clamp. Who knows...
Timeline is fun and it gives me almost infinite ways for me to be more obsessive about getting the ideal speed long after it passes my audible threshold.
At the end of the day, I just have to find the good enough spot that is reasonable so I stop wasting time fidgeting with toy and spend more time listening to music.

No disagreement about speed stability issue either but I think that is a different story.

Dear Syntax,
Are you suggesting then that Timeline is more successful with DD than BD?
If so doesn’t surprise me.
If I recall the interviews correctly, TW’s original design brief was to make a BD “almost as accurate” as DD?
I’m not sure if he was proposing he could match it precisely…but the objective was to try…..?

I enjoyed your BMW tale and it illustrates the depths of depravity which even major companies stoop to.
In this case 15% underpowered was mis-selling and grounds for a full refund or new engine.
(Mind you, as insurance I would always read various magazine's lab tests to ensure that the manuf meets the requirement - and I did this with my T/T...)

Unfortunately small hi-fi manufacturers are not BMW, who can afford to spend hundreds of millions of Euro/$$$ on design & development for a single engine alone!
I don’t need to list these small manufacturers, I’m sure you know who they all are.

Small hi-fi manufacturers are mostly reputable, usually back ordered for 6-12 months and invariably do their best to support their customers despite the workload and financial strain (as witnessed by unlimited testimonials in the Forums).
These people are the heart & soul of the Audio industry. Much of what they do is a labour of love rather than money. The WWW being such a powerful tool, it wouldn’t take much of a push to put these guys out of business.
So how small a sin does such a manufacturer need to commit to justify the ultimate punishment? 15%....0.01%?....Less?

For sure, if customers need to be warned of a major infraction such as BMW committed then perhaps the Internet is the ideal place.
It’s unlikely to put those guys out of business any time soon.
Kind regards….

Dear Pani,
Regarding your experiences with “timing errors” and PRat? There is another, less obvious, explanation.

If one loudspeaker displays a few db channel imbalance allied to frequency irregularities, e.g. due to the speaker-room relationship, it can not only affect timing but also tunefulness and the ability to follow the musical flow.
Imagine a gradient from "sheer chaos" to "slight confusion" depending on how severe a frequency/amplitude imbalance might be in the average system?

I use electrostatic dipolar speakers and one side of my room is naturally “weak” by a few db or so. I routinely spend the first 15 mins of each session (whether CD or LP) rebalancing and ”tuning” the room’s absorbance to get the “weak” side to match.
Once this happens, the magic flows and order is restored.

So depending on what type of speakers you use and what kind of drive units exist within, with a poorly optimised room I would think it possible one may experience this kind of “disorientation”.
It shows how easily the musical balance can be upset.
It’s a minor inconvenience, but the turntable motor unit and tonearm were NOT the villains. (At least in my case)

Please note that the room is not necessarily symmetrical to achieve balance. No room is capable of absolute symmetry anyway, even if it looks symmetrical. 
Walls/floors/ceilings can be irregular/odd-angled and nothing will ever change that, however much we wish to believe they are perfectly parallel and flat.

Most importantly it’s conceivable that any signal imbalance within source LP/cartridge/electronics/speakers could, perhaps(?), combine to aggravate this situation.
Sadly, it’s not the first answer that springs to mind when we look for explanations.
Kind regards………..