Using Test LP - curious observations


I've been tremendously enjoying my Lyra Delos with the Classic for about 1.5 yrs now, and just recently remembered I had the Hi-Fi News Analogue Test LP and got the urge to test my setup.
Here are some of my observations that came as a surprise to me:
1) Anti-skate (Bands 6,7,8,9 on side one) - the cartridge "passed" the test on Band 6 without any anti-skate, but there was audible buzzing coming from the right channel at higher amplitudes. Applying anti-skate made NO difference whatsoever to the results, whether on setting 1, 2 or 3 (most anti-skate). I prefer the sound without anti-skate so this only seemed to confirm that applying anti-skate arguably does nothing to improve the sound and likely makes it worse. It also seems to shed some light on why Harry doesn't like anti-skate.
2) Azimuth (Band 5 on side two) - My preamp has a mono switch so this seemed pretty straightforward. According to the instructions, there should be minimal (if any) mono output if the cartridge was aligned perfectly. Well, there was certainly some output, which immediately worried me, but what really left me scratching my head was the fact that no adjustment appeared to correct it, or make a significant difference. I use the Soundsmith's Counter Intuitive to fine-adjust VTF and azimuth, and after about 2 hours of a wide range of adjustments in azimuth through the CI, it was virtually impossible to determine the optimal azimuth setting, i.e., the output seemed consistently the same regardless of adjustments.

Please free to comment, share your experiences or explain my curious results. Or are they not curious?
actusreus
I am an engineer. I can appreciate some of the subjective comments about anti-skate and how it affects the sound, but I want to clarify a few things here with some facts.
1) Skating force is generated by the friction of the stylus on the vinyl. This friction creates a moment (torque) on the tonearm. This moment is the distance of the friction force from the pivot point of the tonearm. This statement applies to most, but not all tonearm designs. If your cartridge is turned so that the stylus is perpendicular to the tangent of the record groove, then this statement applies.
2) Skating force is constant regardless of the tonearm position, ie. beginning or end of the record. The force can vary due to the groove modulation, but this change is a small fraction of the overall friction force. There is a youtube video demonstrating how skating force is constant with a blank disc. Excellent video.
3) Yes, the anti-skating force on the tonearm produces a moment (torque) on the cantilever, but so does the VTF (Vertical Tracking Force). Ideally, these loads should be applied directly to the stylus, but they cannot. But cartridge and Tonearm manufacturers do not design their products in isolation. So the cartridge manufacturers build a suspension system into the cantilever. This suspension system is preloaded. That means they have already built in a counter load to the VTF and anti-skating forces that will be applied by the tonearm. If you look closely at your phono cartridge while it is cued up- you might be able to see the cantilever sitting down and slightly to the right against the frame or body of the cartridge. But when cued down onto the vinyl the cantilever should be nearly centered inside that framework. At least that is what I see on my cartridge. That is why the cartridge manufacturer gives a recommended VTF range. They have built a preload into the suspension within that VTF and anti-skating force range. If you apply more or less VTF/Anti-skate, then the cantilever may not be in the optimum position.
Without anti-skate applied the left side of the groove is countering all of the skating force. This will not just possibly make the two channels sound different, but it is going to accelerate wear on one side of the stylus. So why do some phono cartridges sound better on some rigs without AS (anti-skate) applied? I'm not sure, but I speculate a couple of ideas, some of which were already mentioned. Perhaps the pivot bearing has some friction. This friction, if high enough could not just counter the skating forces but also cause the right side groove to have to move the stylus. Another possibility is that the tt is not level. Make sure your tt is perfectly level. If it is a suspended tt like mine, then you have to make sure the platter/tonearm is level, not just the base. The last possibility that I can think of why the cartridge might sound better without AS is tonearm geometry set-up. We must use our protractors to set the HTA and VTA in a static situation. That means that while the cantilever is loaded in the vertical direction (VTF) it is not loaded in the horizontal direction. That slight difference could be audible to some. Perhaps some tweaking is required to compensate. When I am setting up my tonearm position, I pull on the platter to load the stylus in the horizontal direction as I position the tonearm.
I apologize if I seem brusque. I think I am correct, but my feelings won't be hurt if someone finds an error or errors in what I have written. It is all about learning.
Tonywins, 'Risky business' to desagree with an engeneer but
deed you not overlook the velocity by point 2? You mentioned only the groove modulation as a cause for the anti-skate variation. In my experience only Sony made specific provision for the anti-skate variation depending
on the record radius. I assume that the engeneers by Sony
were aware of the forces involved.

Regards,
Nandric, I do not know for sure. Friction between the stylus and vinyl is pulling on the stylus tangential to the groove. That force is sliding friction. I do not think it is dependent upon speed- at least within a certain range. The test with a blank disc shows the same skating force at the outside and inside of the record, so I believe it is showing that the sliding friction force is constant.
Tony

What you have said makes perfect sense to me and my expeience. Really I don't see how you get around not having antiskate unless you drop to a very low VTF. Around 1g vtf probably needs very little antiskate.
Tonywinsc, This is not my field so I will put my question in laymans vocabulary. The record grooves get 'smaller' towards the spindle while the platter has the same speed
(33 or 45). So the stylus travels shorter distance towards
the end of the record and the longer distance at the outside radius of the record. This imply different speed for the stylus and contradicts çonstant anti-skate force assumption. Or so I thought.

Regards,