Wow, I heard things on tape I never heard before

"The question was posed after a discussion on phase problems that develop when music is recorded with many microphones and passed through and processes by many digital boxes.

A drawing of the stylus in a record groove showed how the right and left channels are reproduced by left and right movement of the stylus. There is another movement of the stylus, vertical, that is the component of phase relationships. That movement doesn't have an effect on the left and right channels but is noticed on a tape recording and adds air that gives the music an effect that won't come across on an LP."

Seems to me the 1st paragraph is unrelated to the 2nd.

The 1st is talking about recording musical components out of phase because of relative distances of the recording mics and time delays in various processors. The end result being the music that is put to tape or to vinyl or to CD does not have the original phase relationships of the components as produced by the musicians.

The 2nd paragraph is talking about the phase between left and right channels. This phase difference would be there regardless of the recording media. And frankly, I have no idea what the vertical movement bit is trying to say in the 2nd paragraph. Pure vertical movement of a stylus simply means that both the left and right channels are in phase, i.e., a mono signal. Any movement other than vertical means that there are out of pphase signals, i.e., stereo.

I have a few first generation copies of some studio master tapes, all 15ips, dual track, produced on Ampex machines. They do sound great but I have no reference to what the material sounds like since I don't have vinyl/cd equivalents. I also have a library of pre-recorded broadcast tapes (Drake, AFRTS) that the source was vinyl. Much of the material on these broadcast tapes I have in both vinyl and cd format. Overall, the tapes do sound 'warmer'. Soon the Miles/Blue will be available on Blu-Ray, sourced from the original three track master tapes. Should provide for some interesting listening.

I have never experienced that before, at least not when making copies of LP's to open reel. That doesn't seem to make sense to me. I would agree that even a second generation master tape is far superior to LP. I use 1/2 track machines running at 15ips (Crown sx822, Pioneer RT 1050, Revox B77). I will say (slightly off topic here) that when recording CD to open reel, the CD suddenly becomes listenable. Something wonderful happens, don't know what, but wonderful. Many of my favorite CD's that are not available in LP have been dubbed on open reel. The transformation is astounding.

Hi Norman,

It's hard for me to know the best place to start with my response but I'll begin with with what I learned on Friday.

I Spent Friday at a Seminar at ATR Services in York, Pa. It is the THIRD time I've been there! I'm a slow learner. I have a number of ATR 100 machines and picked up another on Friday. Being an audiophile, I got to mix with those that make the music we listen to. I hear Pro Tools, $Y*"_P+Jm and all the studio speak that comes from those in the business of making the music we listen to. They leave me in the dust. I'm able to offer my opinion on the Pizza at lunch time, but otherwise , I just sit there like a bump on a log.

Guess what, a few guys, in their mid 30s, that have a studio that only use Pro Tools attended because their clients are now asking if they can mix down to 2 track analog. They left ordering an ATR 1- 2 ready machine for about $14,000.

The discussion centered on how a digital multitrack recording WILL sound better if mixed down to 2 track analog on an RTR machine. ATRs aren't the only RTR machines studios use. HOWEVER, when it comes to recording, the ATR machines have a bias frequency over 450 KHZ which is three times that of the closest competitor. The harder you can drive the nail, recorded sound, into the tape the better reproduction. I'm referring to recording and not reproduction which is easier to do.

Today I took my Krell SACD player and connected it to one of my ATR machines, via balanced interconnects, and recorded one of my favorite songs on ATR tape at 15 ips. I played the song back on tape, it was done in full digital when released, and compared it to the CD. Tape took the digital harshness off the music. I guess I'll be transferring my favorite CDs to tape. I'll be selective as tape isn't cheap, that is if you get the good stuff.

I have the feeling that the studios that are run by the 30 to 40 year old guys will listen to the artists that realize that analog just sounds better.

Pro Tools offer effects that almost no new studio can afford to do in the analog domain. Vintage Fairchild limiters that sell for $10.000 grand are emulated in digital for a few hundred bucks. If the digital harshness can be reduced by doing an analog mix down to analog tape, so be it.

Long live analog, ken

Hello Ken, well you have me wishing I could afford an ATR machine and a Krell SACD player. I do agree, it takes the 'digital harshness' off the music. I too am selective. If I can find NOS maxell UDXL then I buy it. It comes up every now and then on ebay. Other than that ATR is a wonderful tape. I order mine through my local Guitar Center.
Here in Chicago, there are several small 'boutique' studios that are going straight analog. It's kinda cool seeing Refurbished Ampex, Crown and Studers doing what they do best. I love it.
Thanks for the great post.
Norman