What is the Phono stage you have finished with?

Keep in mind that all of that proselytizing (mine) comes from someone who just bought a standalone MM stage where I will need a headamp/SUT and a preamp to make it work.

T_bone, you got it. Thanks.

What you're describing are not connectivity issues. Those are cable quality issues and personal preferences. Nothing more. New models of components are introduced every year. Does that mean people's "old" systems are no longer any good and must be replaced? Does that mean that cables between amps and preamps are replaced every year just because there are improvements there? No to both.

But that's not what you REALLY said originally. What you said was (read very carefully!):

"You see, one of the functions of a line stage is to control the interconnect cable. I don't see any phono stage that is really designed to do that, so the interconnect between the phono section and whatever follows (line stage, power amp) is critical. [snip undisputed passive volume control and function statement]."

So you can see that what you said is a WHOLE LOT DIFFERENT than when you changed your explanation to something else completely. What you said had to do with the quality of a phono stage being able to "control the interconnect cable" as if there are not differences between interconnects between other components, downstream of the preamp, or between a "properly designed" phono stage and a preamp. But there are, as well as there are differences between the wire that can be used inside an integrated preamp. Does that mean that the preamp needs to be rewired every time there is an improvement in point-to-point wire?

But the issue remain that you said that you know of no phono stage that has the same attention to its output than the output of a preamp. You also implied that since a preamp is designed to "control the interconnect" that there are no differences in downstream interconnects but there are between phono stages and line stage preamps.

I mean, that is what you said. Right? That's where I disagree with you.

If I understand the comments by Rauliruegas, and repeated by Notec and Atmasphere, the theory is that a phono stage that is integrated into the preamplifier is better than one that is separate because the interconnection forms a kind of "weak link". This statement sound generally incorrect. Keep in mind that the signal output from the phono stage should be about as strong as the signal output from a CD player or tuner. I mean, the point of the phono stage is to take a signal that is too weak to be input to the preamplifier (i.e. the signal from the cartridge) and amplify it to a level that is suitable for the preamplifier (there is, of course also the task of RIAA equalization as well). If the signal from the phono stage is weaker, then you probably have a problem of too low a gain level in the phono stage.

An advantage in having the phono stage separate from the preamplifier is that the phono stage is typically the highest gain component in your system, and it receives signals that are significantly weaker than those elsewhere in the system. Those weak signals are prone to interference from nearby stronger signals, so by keeping those signals in a separate box, you can amplify the weak signal while minimizing interference and then once the signal has been amplified, it can then be introduced into the rest of the system.

Yep, it's all good. I believe I understand what Atmasphere was going for. However, I think for those in this upper end of the market the cost of an additional IC isn't that big of a deal. If a particular integrated sounds better than a particular set of separates, or if the separates sound better, is only an evaluation of those pieces. Extrapolating those results into some blanket statement about which approach is superior is great marketing.

T_bone, Nick has already done an excellent 2 chassis, full-function preamp with built-in phono stage. The 4 chassis model that I commissioned was exactly as you say, more expensive, however it does surpass the 2 chassis model in performance. (I even skipped the remote, to give an idea of what I am after.) The four chassis model is the separation of the pre and phono circuits and a separate power supply for each, 2 circuit chassis and two power supply chassis. There are always trade-offs and implementation is everything. The extra IC is not a problem at all from where I sit (pun intended). IMO, YMMV, and all that.

disclaimer: I don't represent Doshi Audio, I'm just a very happy camper.