Building high-end 'tables cheap at Home Despot II


“For those who want the moon but can't afford it or those who can afford it but like to have fun and work with their hands, I'm willing to give out a recipe for a true high-end 'table which is easy to do, and fun to make as sky's the limit on design/creativity! The cost of materials, including 'table, is roughly $200 (depending, more or less), and add to that a Rega tonearm. The results are astonishing. I'll even tell/show you how to make chipboard look like marble and fool and impress all your friends. If there's interest I'll get on with this project, if not, I'll just continue making them in my basement. The next one I make will have a Corian top and have a zebra stripe pattern! Fun! Any takers?”

The Lead in “Da Thread” as posted by Johnnantais - 2-01-04

Let the saga continue. Sail on, oh ships of Lenco!
mario_b
OK, the EAR 834P DOES do magic! I switched the V3 tube to a GE 5751, and the other two to Sovtek 12AX7s, and Bingo-Presto! tons of PRaT, gestalt, propulsion and excitement, all the good stuff an idler-wheel drive can dish out, putting the EAR in the same league as the good vintage CJ and other glorious tubed preamps of yore in this sense. I wouldn't have credited a tube change to affect the character of a piece so deeply (information, air, imaging, detail, yes), so a whole new area for me to obsess/get neurotic about, a whole new can 'o worms. Learn something new every day. So, count me among EAR 834P fans, though with the new price it is no longer the screaming deal it was. But, now I'm casting an experimental eye on the coupling caps, and also wondering how the Sovteks would do in my CJ PV-7's phono stage. Good news that a fix for the EAR is a cheap new tube, the Sovteks' brightness and clarity providing the counterbalance to the EAR's gentleness, seeming darkness and seeming (with stock tubes) lack of focus and musical energy (relative to superb vintage pieces like the CJs); and the 5751 providing that needed sense of focus (detail and bass tightness and control increased immensely). Though I'm not certain exactly which tubes did what, extrapolating from readings of reviews and forums. Replacing the stock tubes with mellow-sounding vintage tubes was like pouring honey on syrup to cut down the sweetness: it barely touched the overall sound quality/character, leading me to believe the sound could not be meaningfully changed. Now I'll shut up until I have some real new news to relate, the EAR is a Contender, and Sovteks have their uses!! Thanks for egging me on Mike. Have a good Labour Day weekend all, the rest of the weekend is tube-rolling, beer and enjoying a late summer bloom!!
Heh, heh, heh...

I have tried all sorts of tubes in the EAR. If I tried a 5751, I dont remember - but I settled on a compliment of tubes sorted from my big box if nos 12A-- types. I think I saw a 5751 on my desk the other day - I'll pop it in and see what it does.

BTW - I always wanted to try a PV7, it has the reputation of making everything sound good. Of course, in our perverse audiofool ways, this has to be wrong because we know that all records do NOT sound good, so away with euphonic components that FORCE us to enjoy the music! :)

IN any case, I have come to two conclusions about vintage gear: 1) Those old tube era engineers really knew what they were doing and did many seemingly simple things, circuit wise, that have profound sonic results and 2) The carbon comp resistors used in almost all pre-70's electronics (the little brown ones) have a humanizing sound that is integral to the pleasing sound of vintage gear. Call it a pleasant distortion if you like. They are not used much in highend gear these days because of their self noise and tendency to drift.

Mike
COme on Jean, I've got a bar of soap bigger than that "ultra-Lenco" - no, wait... :)

Just kidding, that thing looks cool - very sixties pastel color. What is that "washing machine green"? We had sinks all over the house that color when I was a kid. There is something about the painted plinth and the white Lenco that is very sucessful style-wise - I like the blue one too.

AS far as coupling caps, I took a flyer on a pair of Mundorf silver in oil for the EAR. They, like your balancing of the tube types, are an excellent compliment to the EAR. Bypassing the volume pot gave another easy step up in quality - however, you many remember the trouble it gave me with MM's - there was so much gain that it caused distortion into my preamp. I ended up bypassing the pot with a suitable voltage divider.

Mike
Hi Mike, "voltage divider" huh? We're already into problems ;-). Sorry, I pour most of my energies into understanding and playing with turntables, tonearms, cartridges and phono stages, though I have assembled some tube amp kits and done my share of simple mods (replacing caps and so on), and of course am endlessly playing with interesting speakers and amps....of, forget it, I'm into everything (but minimal attention spared for digital media).

Ah, the Conrad Johnson PV-7, THERE's the rub!! There's a BIG problem with semantics in audio discussions, due to the fact than many simply have not heard a truly musical, "magical" component (just as most haven't heard a truly capable CD player or a true high-end record player), and so confuse "accuracy"/information-retrieval with the concept of musicality. I would say most audiophiles fall into this category, and so are driven to endlessly seek that which they avoid so assiduously, in a never-ending cycle of buying and selling and upgrading: "coloured" components like the CJ PV-7. "Magic" in the sense of utterly compelling and seductive, like watching Anne Margret in her prime doing a slow strip-tease just for you!! Raise the hairs on your arms, give-you-the-shivers, keep you entranced rooted-to-the-spot magic!!

Anyway, the PV-7 goes WAY beyond and much deeper than being simply "euphonious" or "listenable" or "coloured", it makes everything sound good not because it is coloured (its bass - so far - is weaker than many other preamps, and its high somewhat rolled-off) but because it is doing something very well that very few components can do (excepting certain components like the ARC SP-8 and, the Spendor BC-1s, and of course, the Lenco ;-)). Meaning that its colourations are NOT connected to its magic, which is something that was done extremely right in the circuit. I've argued this point for years in various threads on this forum: pieces like the CJ PV-7, the Lenco, the Denon DL-103, varous MMs, should not be avoided due to perceived "colourations" (i.e. it sounds too musical and enjoyable therefore it MUST be coloured, thinking which rose to full force with the rise of digital media/computer approximations of music, the "scientific" approach favoured by dissectionists/vivisectionsists which is itself a GROSS colouration, as real, live music is anything but analytical), but instead closely examined to see why they sound so musical, and design it into the next piece to achieve true progress.

In a related vein, I have never, personally, had so many moments of intense musical experience, of actual shivers, hairs rising on the body, virtual hypnotism and long nights of "conducting", dancing, borderline or actual crying as I have since I discovered the idler-wheel principle and more specifically the Lencos. And many many Lenco-ers (and Garrard-ers and so on) report the same thing, meaning that it is not so subjective, but is due to an underlying objective reality. All CJ PV-7 experiences are via the phono stage of course ;-). I see various discussions STILL on various forums as to why the Lenco sounds so good and conquers most of those who hear it, or own it and favour it over large collections of various high-end and classic record players. The answer - as for the PV-7 - is simple: because it is doing something right. Meaning that, though its speed stability - as with belt-drives and direct drives - may not be perfect (nothing is in this world), its imperfections do not detract from the musical experience, while the speed imperfections of BDs and DDs ARE more intrusive, and so more destructive of the musical experience. But, unlike the PV-7, the Lenco has no weakness in audiophile terms: its retrieval of musical information/detail is astonishing, its frequency range is limitless, its dynamics unsurpassed, its bass deep and powerful and again limitless, the soundstage it produces is HUGE and cavernous, and this is all done with a high degree of refinement (none of the coarseness of other idler-wheel drives, though again this can be mitigated to a large degree by Direct Coupling and bearing upgrades).

Anyway, get yourself a PV-7 Mike and play, they're cheap'n cheerful, relatively common (unlike the much-rarer PV-8), and unbelievably good, in the sense of sheer enjoyment and magic. The CJ PV-8 is also incredible, and will also root me to the spot, but for different reasons: its sheer dynamics, combined with clarity and detail (more detailed than the EAR even with the better tube complement) and superb bass shows things in recordings (also due to the dynamics which help "reveal" the minutiae of recording and production) I have never heard or noticed before. For instance, the other night I played the Eurythmics "Sweet Dreams are Made of This" LP, and though I've owned it since it came out and have owned various high-end turntables since that time, I have never heard it like this: every song was excellent (I previously only truly liked the title track), due not only to the music, but to how the Lenco/JMW/Clearuadio Concerto/PV-8 clearly showed how the recording/production was done, a integral part of any Eurythmics piece. It was exciting, superb, informative and MUSICAL all at once. Evidently this quality could be heard out on the street, as some sudents walking out in the street in front of my house stopped (the windows were open) and I could hear them say "Let's stop and listen to the party". They sat on the steps (giving out onto the sidewalk) through the two-hour "concert" while I worked on my soundroom. And the PV-8 handles low-output MCs with ease, the Concerto's .5 mv still too much for the PV-8 (via the sensitive Technics SB-4s) so that I still cannot raise the volume beyond 9 o'clock on the volume control. A bunch of 5751s instead of 12AX7s will tame this, AND increase resolution.

But, all that said, the PV-7 is STILL the PV-8's superior in the sense of that high degree of magic. So, I'm keeping them both :-), and will switch back and forth. Can you tell I'm a vintage CJ fan? Haven't heard the new stuff.

Anyway, let me know how the 5751 works out in your EAR Mike, thanks for the compliment on the Lencos, I really like that green and cream combination!! And have fun all, the new soundroom is REALLY an important part of the musical experience!!
I know you have someone to ask re the voltage divider :) Just two resistors to take the place of the pot - TECHNICAL! :0)

The weak bass on the PV7 "may" just be small output caps meant to cut-off low frequencies - warp and wow, etc. I would be very careful about playing with RIAA caps though. Maybe there is an upgrade thread somewhere on the web.

The LCR - on the other hand - is supposed to be the most transparent and have the most realistic timbre of any phono stage - supposedly. I also suppose the owners of Bolder and Walker might disagree, but Wavac was selling them for like $12 large so I guess they had to be doing someing right.

It will be interesting to see how listenable it is.

Mike