Building high-end 'tables cheap at Home Despot II

Phew, I see I've missed a lot of action by being cut off from the internet, including reviews of exciting new analog products!! Forced to use free internet for 15-minute pops once a week when I went to town led to such great typos as "Have fin", which is entirely appropriate considering the Dolphin pump Mike recommends for the Terminator tonearm :-).

Speaking of which, reminds me of early days in the original thread when I believe it was Reinderspeter who was using his DIY version of the Ladegaard tonearm on his first Lenco. I see I have a lot of catching up to do with respect to reviews and buzzes on products on Da 'Net after my long isolation in the country. Lots of surfing to do to catch up!! The Terminator sounds really exciting Mike! I was speaking with an old buddy I bumped into in town last week who had me build him a MG-1-adapted Lenco, the MG-1 being another low-priced air-bearing tonearm, as he has fallen completely under the spell of his MG-1 after years, the Lenco/MG-1 being one of the few pieces to survive an across-the board clearing after he had decided to sell everything off (including recent components from Audio Research, Bryston, Aesthetix, etc.) and start over from scratch. Others, on the other hand, find they can't live with the air-hiss noise, which is barely audible. Is it audible with the Terminator Mike? Not that this bothers me, we all have different things we can tolerate. I'll soon be building my long-threatened Lenco-Noll, using the Maplenoll tonearm on the Reinderspeter top-plate Lenco. Maybe I should re-think this and go for the Terminator. Having lived with the Maplenoll for years which was excellent in both audiophile and musical terms, I do have a thing for air-bearing parallel-tracking tonearms.

Speaking of the Reinderspeter top-plate Lew, yes, it seems to be an across-the-board improvement over the "regular" Lenco, but with losses of convenience (you have to remove the platter and manually slide the idler-wheel arm to adjust or change speeds), and with the clearance between the platter and the top-plate itself so small that even paint thickness can cause rubbing/scraping problems. So assemble first and then see how much paint you can use, as there are variations in both main bearing height, and in platter height/thickness, the latter likely due to variations in the brass insert to seat the platter on the main bearing. I had to go through my collection of platters and main bearings to find a match which cleared the professionally recoated top-plate. All that said, again on a rather brief comparison (there will be longer ones to come as I set up in the new abode/soundroom), the Reinderspeter top-plate did outperform the "regular" Lenco on all counts, across the frequency range, including motor noise. And again that said, I will always keep a "regular" massive glass-reinforced Direct Coupled Giant Lenco on hand for its convenience and ease of use, and because, let's face it: if it can square off against $50K record players (and above) then it's good enough for me! And improvements in the bass by the Reinderspeter top-plate aside, Mike's experience with the Terminator tonearm shows that improvements in the bass can be achieved by other means (if necessary: the Lenco bass was definitely more powerful than that from the SME 30, for instance, and every other 'table it has been pitted against so far, colouration questions aside), so the regular Giant Direct Coupled Lenco can be further improved by all kinds of means, and is already unbelievably (literally) good.

Speaking of which (again), my experience with the superb Kokomo bearing mod for the Garrards, which uses a "soft" ceramic ball bearing, suggests that such a creature might improve the Lenco main bearing, I'll have to try the Lenco bearing mod at some point with a softer ceramic bearing.

Now I'm setting up in a new place, I've tripped over and acquired lots of new equipment for the new sound room! First off: I walked into a used audio shop just as a pair of very unlikely speakers I would never have considered otherwise were playing, and I was entranced: a pair of Technics SB-4 speakers, being "Linear Phase Honeycomb Disc Speaker Systems", having flat diaphragms made of a very light and stiff metal honeycomb material. It is the smallest of a series of three-way speakers (the others being the SB-6 and SB-8), and is that mythical beast: a dynamic driver speaker which actually does sound like an electrostatic, having no speaker-box/resonant sound, and being extremely detailed with enormous clarity, speed and a chameleon-like ability to sound exactly like the driving electronics. To drive them I bought both a C-J PV-7, which simply does the best palpability/3D/air-resonance retrieval I have ever heard from any preamp (and so which makes live recordings sound better than I have ever heard them), and a C-J PV-8, which is the big and warm-sounding PV-7's polar opposite, not sounding like the pure tube preamp it is (it was designed to compete with the Audio Research SP-9, which at the time set the benchmark for detail and "neutrality" in reasonably-priced preamps). Of course I write of all these things with respect to each preamp's phono stage, but used as a complete preamp. Finally, to go along with all these things I heard and bought a Mitsubishi amp, the DA-A10DC, a 100-watt dual-mono design from way back, and one of the best transistor amps I've heard. Has no reputation, can be had cheap. Ultra-detailed, powerful, clean-sounding with no nasties. The speakers verge on the bright, but with no screechy nasties, which is why I favour the PV-7 for now. Of course, I'll soon be trying the Leak amp with them which though only 12 watts will do, as the Technics speakers are also sensitive and easy to drive. Oh, and I was using the AKG P8ES MM on a Rega RB-300 the whole time, and I was not missing my higher-end tonearms or cartridges at all, I LOVE the P8ES, which is very detailed, warm, magical and retrieves air and resonances itself like a Grado, and am again amazed a how good the good ol' Rega tonearms are.

Lots more too, but that's enough for now, I'll report back as I settle into the new sound-room and catch up on some reading. Have fun all!!

hi Jean,
I am happy to hear you like the results of my plate. The problem of clearance between platter and plate is easily solved by putting a washer between circlip and thrustplate support. Or you can simply add a second thrustplate.

This week I have posted the first pictures of the newest plate version the PTP3 on LencoLovers. The main difference is that speed change is now possible without taking the platter off. http://www.lenco-lovers.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=3341

Peter

Gee willikers, Jean, I forgot what you asked me after reading all that! Maybe I will move to Canada to be able to buy some of that cool used stereo gear!

I remember those technics speakers.

Can anyone remember how everybody thought the Japanese were crazy with all those bright, trebly sounding speakers? What kind of crap are they trying to foist off on us - we used to wonder? What we didnt know was that many of those 70's - 80's Japanese speakers were voiced for tubes - when most of us had the latest Kenwood or Sansui SS seperates.

As to the Terminator it has been down for a while - I installed a new rack and set up a marble/acrylic sandwich on my TT rack, like Jean. I just got it situated again yesterday. After finally quieting the pump - I can say, just as Vic claims, there is no hiss or air noise, even with your mug right in front of the table while it is running.

Also, remember that the Terminator's claim to fame is the lightened, shortened arm assembly. Vic represents it as a happy accident but it may be that this design feature - somewhat like the Lenco itself, brilliant engineering; industrially executed for cost’s sake – makes the Terminator an arm that may actually be in the running for sounding the best, or at least as good as the best, in sonic certain parameters. Given, of course that almost noone claims that any one arm is the best at everything.

I will be posting more on the Terminator when I get it perfectly setup again. (I didnt lock it down when I moved the table.) Also, I have yet to try anything but a Ortofon M15e super on it.

Also, as if I wasnt obnoxious enough, I am building an LCR RIAA preamp! :)

Mike

Hi Peter: you're becoming like Microsoft :-)!! No sooner one thing bought than it's already been superseded and it's time to upgrade!! But sonically they are identical, so what the hey, I'll STILL be rebuilding my own MKI top-plates (one blank for the Maplenoll tonearm, the other a two-tonearm version), having bought two HUGE ones. I'll play with washers, I still remember when a difference of 1 mm on the ball bearing destroyed the Lenco sound way back when when I lost the little thing (in the early days four years ago before we discovered new sources of ball bearings and all sorts of stuff), so some auditioning ahead to make sure sound quality is not affected. I'm sure the bushings in the main bearings can be pushed around to compensate.

Hi Mike, great to hear there's no audible hiss, the one failing of the also ultra-light MG-1 tonearm, which is made of carbon-fibre and plastic. There'll have to be a Shootout, and I'll throw in the primitive blunderbuss ultra-high-mass Maplenoll tonearm to boot, which made the Maplenoll 'table incredibly dynamic and with THUNDEROUS bass (before my discovery of the idler-wheel superiority in this respect). It'll be interesting to find out what is doing what.

And yep, I can't believe just how amazing those Technics speakers really are, with incredible clarity and detail and speed. Brightness is from the accompanying electronics and system, the SB-4s sounding lush when the C-J PV-7 is in the circuit, and now with the system reconfigured, no brightness whatsoever from the Lenco/JMW 105i/Decca Super Gold/C-J PV-8/Mitsubishi DA-A10DC system. Now the C-J PV-8 is also sounding better and better, and I'm in Music Heaven daily with either pre (and having fun switching back and forth according to taste and mood), in this new abode which is more conducive to extended auditioning and experiments. While the PV-8 doesn't have the incredible midrange of the PV-7 (but not far behind), it is far better at the frequency extremes, and in terms of gain: it is MONSTER of phono gain, which means LO MCs can be run directly into it, for those looking for a reasonably-cheap but superb and adaptable phono stage. The PV-8 is also much more flexible than most PV line C-J preamps, having a mono, stereo reverse, and so on switch. I'll try my Denon direct into it for some more fun and report on this soon. Both the PV-7 and PV-8 blow the crap out of any sub-$1K separate phono pre I've ever heard. The fellow who sold it to me wants to hear a Lenco through it: he won't believe what this preamp can REALLY do in terms of detail, air, dynamics, bass and clarity, as he has only heard it so far with digital sources. He's also curious about the Idler Thing :-).

Ah the Ortofon M15E Super, I can't wait to hook it up too, was again and again my fave cartridge of all time, and see how the AKG P8ES measures up, they being similar-sounding. The new address means lots more experimenting and auditioning to come, it's got an attached workshop to double my fun, AND a better soundroom! Many more experiments to come all, hope you're all having as much fun as I am!! Good luck in building your new phono pre Mike!!

And speaking of phono pres all, I have been going crazy in my slowly-developing new soundroom, as in addition to the CJ PV-7 (incredible HUGE midrange) and PV-8 (hugely dynamic, incredible bass and clarity) I also scored an EAR 834P and decided to have a big shootout to see which I will keep. This via the Leak Stereo 20/Technics SB-4s or the Mitsubishi/Technics SB-4s. The speed and agility of the little 12-watt Leak continues to astound, as once again it comes out sounding like the big 100-watt SS amp (powerful and DEEP bass, hyper-speed, mighty dynamics to suit the Mighty Lenco) while the big SS amps come out sounding gentle in comparison. Wait until I get the big Klipsch Cornwalls into the living room, the neighbours are going to LOVE me ;-). The Klipsch, in addition to being hyper-sensitive, also having 15" woofers...and being THE most actually neutral (as opposed to a "dry" dessicated sound masquerading as neutrality) speaker I have ever heard. AND, contrary to popular belief, the Cornwalls sound great with SS too (being actually neutral and all ;-)). BUT, the Technics SB-4s have incredible clarity and speed (AND real neutrality), and incredibly musicality, so that the innocent next-door neighbour, a musician utterly innocent of audiophile concerns, loves just coming over with beer (being a musician) and saying "So, what'll you play now John?" As all truly experienced audiophools know, its the innocents who are the true judge of the musical success of a system, audiophiles in general being far too prejudiced and often unaware of the concept of "musicality" as opposed to sound.

Now I post this for those looking for high-end sound on a budget, in the great Lenco tradition :-)!!Anyway, I used, of course, the giant Lenco as platform, and tried the MAS 282/AKG P8ES (superb, the MAS having been designed by Mr. Ito of Ittok fame, the MAS having impressed me so much I now have an Ittok, though it was fashionable in the early days of the Rega RB-300 to crap on the Ittok); the JMW 10.5/Decca (always incredible, and about as fast as it is possible to be, especially on a big idler-wheel drive) and the JMW/Clearaudio Concerto.

Now, the Concerto is not cheap (but not especially expensive these days in terms of high-end cartridges), but it has a musical magic, repeatable across systems, tonearms, electronics and speakers (the first in my experience consistently so, others only reaching this level of musical magic when the stars are in the right alignment) which makes it, in the context of incredible detail retrieval and so forth, the best cartridge I've ever heard. Because I place musical magic/shivers/hairs rising up on your arms above every other audio experience. Which is also why I champion the Lenco and other big idlers above all other 'tables. But, like the Lenco, the Concerto is not ONLY about magic and musical power (gestalt, PRaT, SLAM, etc.), it is also, being a Clearaudio, excellent at detail, speed, transients, and dynamic shadings. Though the Decca STILL has it for transients and speed, and possibly bass, it cannot match either the AKG P8ES (a close second to the Clearaudio in terms of magic, and perhaps better at retrieving air and resonances, like the Grado, which makes me suspect moving irons are quite simply superior to MC in this respect, just as idlers are quite simply superior to everything else :-)!!) or the Concerto (and perhaps the Denon DL-103 and a few other MMs including Grados) for this indefinable magic. You can see I've been busy ;-).

Anyway, the EAR, in almost every review compared against older CJ preamps, does indeed sound great. I used it as a complete phono preamp (mine has the volume pot), using it directly into my amps. The EAR is completely stock, down to the no-name tubes. It does indeed blow away all stand-alone phono preamps I've tried (nothing too exotic mind), sounding smooth, detailed, lively and with great air and imaging. Something about it is methodical. At first it sounds kind of boring, but as time goes on, this grows on you, as it indeed retrieves quite a lot of information, including dynamics, quite a bit of detail, and imaging information. You get the feeling it is just getting on with the job at hand, and in a civilized manner, at a rather high level (if you recognize yourselves in this description, then this is the phono preamp for you). I find it closer to the CJ PV-7 than to the PV-8, as the EAR's bass simply does not compare with the bass from the PV-8, which is Decca-tight, fast and resolved. The PV-7, on the other hand, has a gentle pillowy bass and an equally pillowy high frequency range. The PV-7, though, has it for the midrange, being better than either the EAR or the PV-8 at resolving information here, and being quite simply HUGE and lush with larger and more spaced images. Perhaps too much so, but rivetting nevertheless. Now the PV-7 IS that classic tube preamp, and with a healthy dose of that hypnotizing musical magic common, I now see, to the vintage CJ preamps, and the late, lamented ARC SP-8. I'm not sure about the PV-7's highs as compared with the EAR's. Is one better than the other? I suspect the EAR is more matter-of-fact neutral here, but I'm not sure, as though the PV-7 sounds rolled off (like the EAR) there actually is quite a lot of delicate high-frequency detail.

The PV-8 is quite simply killer. It is liquid, more detailed than the EAR everywhere, much more dynamic and lively, with higher highs and lower lows. It is exciting, and makes the hairs go up on my arms, as does the PV-7 (which, however, doesn't have the PV-8 dynamics). But, I have to say that so far, the EAR hasn't done it for me, though it's obvious I like excitement and am not interested so much in "the Truth" (which I think is a frumious bandersnatch). Those who want the truth will find it in the EAR. I didn't tube-roll with the EAR, but then again I didn't with either the PV-7 or the PV-8. I might end up experimenting with all three, as in many ways it's a close-run race. The PV-8 has that thunderous excitement, allied to liquidity and extended frequency extremes. The PV-7 has that HUGE midrange, and can be improved with little effort (this is in the works for mine) and, like the PV-8, can raise the hairs on your arms (with both the AKG and the Concerto). I'm hunting around for some tubes to roll into the EAR for now.

I hope those looking for some more vintage fun will benefit from these experiments. More experiments coming up for the long-delayed Rek-o-Kut now my new workshop is rolling, as well as the Ittok and other tonearms and cartridges and turntables (the reappearance of the superb Sony 2250 for one). Have fun all, and Vive la Idler Wheel!!