Do you think you need a subwoofer?

Dear Darkmoebius: What you are hearing is right: "Everything was rather muted in a undefined way. ".

For the low bass reproduction has " means " for our " ears " it has to be working with the midrange sound, other way ( 80Hz and down ) you will heard what you already heard.

Regards and enjoy the music.
Raul.

Thanks for clearing that up Raul, I was just a little worried that I somehow burned up my subwoofer crossover. Everything sounded great when both the subs and main speakers were playing, but when I turned down the mains, the subs sounded muted and out of focus.

Amazing what an influence such a bad sound can have. I thought instruments and voices sounded pretty damn good before, but now after hearing things with the subs, mains-only sounds thin and one dimensional.

The subs added depth and flesh to everything. Amazing because it does so with very little output. It really doesn't take very much volume wise. Although, what little it does, pushes my 275 wpc sub amp to it's limits on organ music and other sustained low frequencies.

Experiment. The bass may appear fragmented or incomplete but it works its auditory illusory magic with considerable authority. Put on a piece that has critcal bass, e.g. Yo Yo Ma Bach Sonatas. Ensure the bass and upper frequencies are balanced. Then measure the sound levels three ways: combined, bass only and without bass. You'll be surprised how high the dbs are for bass only. I use a separate modded BK 442 (200wpc) amp to drive a pair of separate passive sealed 10inch Hales bass drivers through an active crossover so its always adjustable. I turn the bass way down on poor bass recordings where the woofer just pumps, e.g. sadly RCA LP Heifetz/Reiner Tchaikovsky Violin Concerto; I couldn't do that with an internal three way fixed crossover. A modded BK M200 monoblock (200wpc) amps drive the mid/tweeters. I'm always surprised how much presence the bass driver creates and how hard the bass amp works. Through countless trials I now set the crossover at 120hz. A cello works the bass amp harder than the mid/tweeter amp. I can feel the difference in the heat sinks.

Good idea Sstark,

I'm going to get a decent SPL meter this week to help check my room problems with some test tone cd's, anyway.

It's reassuring to hear that you are actually corssing in the subs that high(as compared to standard 80Hz) because my intial tests over the last week or so, seem to indicate that the 100-120Hz range works best in my room. It's hard to ell where in that range it falls because Paradigm doesn't provide precise numbering along the dial, nor would that matter because I understand that the pot can be up to 20% off.

Anyway, I've been using two or three cello works for tuning the crossover frequency - Kronos Quarter "Gnarly Buttons" & "Pieces Of Africa", and Roger Kellaway's "Cello Quartet". There are also some excellent blues/jazz bartone works that I've noticed get "fleshed out" with the higher setting.

80Hz seems to be a "cleaner" setting, but 100+Hz tends to help out cello, piano, organ, etc.

BTW, Terry Cain suggests using push-pull tube amps with the passive subs. And he said they don't have to be monster amps to get great sound, so I'm considering some vintage PP organ amps. I figure they had to be able to push some current in order handle sustained organ notes in cathedrals/churches.

Dear Darkmoebius: You can try the CD from the original soundtrack film: Sneakers. REL suggest to use it in the four track for test the subs room integration.

Regards and enjoy the music.
Raul.