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Where do classical vinyl records get their rumble from?

Recently converted back to vinyl from silver disks, I am struck by how much rumble seems to be inherent in the new and used vinyl I am buying.

A case in point, is a recent Deutsche Grammophon (DG) recording (487 7484) of Mahler’s Second Symphony made at a live performance at the Sydney Opera House (I was there).  The first set I bought was amongst the dirtiest pressings I have ever had, but the second set was much improved.  However, there is a persistent rumble whether played on my Holbo Mk2 air bearing system or my venerable Garrard 301 (new bearing from Classic Turntable Company).

Mahler typically has huge dynamic range, from muted off-stage performers to hundreds of musicians going hell-for-leather.

The rumble could be partly caused by the venue’s air conditioning system, but I hear similar background on a Telarc recording (Stereo 10051) of Saint Saens Organ Symphony made in Philadelphia.  Telarc even arranged to have local roads shut down for the recording sessions.

Similar efforts were made by DG when recording the organ at Notre Dame in Paris, where recording was done late at night to reduce traffic noise.  My copy includes Dolby Atmos on Pure-Audio Bly-ray (DG 486 1466).

I was beginning to think the rumble was inherent in my tables, but then I played a German Direct Metal Mastered (DMM) set from In-Akustik for Clearaudio’s 40th anniversary (INAK 78051 2LP).  It includes some Telarc tracks.  This set has the quietest background I’ve never heard.  There is virtually no rumble, exonerating my tables.

So apart from the recoding venue’s air conditioning and traffic noise, why do so many classical records seem to have built-in rumble?  Could it be from the mastering lathe?

I am really only thinking about classical recordings where the dynamic range approximates the signal to noise ratio of vinyl, meaning that very low-level signals are musically important, while simultaneously bumping against the noise floor.

richardbrand
richardbrand's avatar
richardbrand OP
1,389 posts
 

@goofyfoot 

Yes, some mono cartridges are compatible with stereo pressings and others will chew it to pieces. Why this is the case, I haven’t yet been able to figure out. Some folks will claim that a true mono cartridge will ruin a stereo pressing

It is because before stereo, there was no vertical component in recordings, so mono cartridges did not need to track vertical modulations.  Consequently they had no need for vertical compliance - which you can think of as springy suspension in the vertical plane.

Stereo records are cut so left and right channel are at 45-degrees.  Each stereo channel has both horizontal and vertical components.  If a stereo record is played with a pure mono cartridge (one without vertical compliance) it will tend to plow through the vertical components, pretty much destroying the record.

I only have one mono LP record which I guess was a purchase mistake on my part.  I do have most of Elgar’s pioneering electrical records, which have been transcribed to CD.  I recently bought a 1934 recording of Walter conducting Mahler 9 and was rather stupidly surprised to find it was transcribed to CD from 78-rpm records.  Somehow I thought the Germans would have been using magnetic tape by then.

I’ll just note that DS Audio has recently released mono versions of all its optical cartridges, for those like you who are really into mono!

goofyfoot's avatar
goofyfoot
1,589 posts
 

@richardbrand I'm referring to mono cartridges made today. You said,'If a stereo record is played with a pure mono cartridge (one without vertical compliance) it will tend to plow through the vertical components, pretty much destroying the record.'

This is not the case. I have a true mono cartridge (individual mono coils in the left and right) and it will play fine on stereo pressings with no damage to the record. A strapped mono cartridge may or may not hurt a record. Same goes for a true mono cartridge.

Anyway, the reasoning behind playing those troubled stereo records with a mono cartridge is deductive. If you play those records with a mono cartridge and you don't experience rumble or noise, than the problem is coming from the vertical walls of the groove.

cleeds
6,583 posts
 
 
richardbrand 

... before stereo, there was no vertical component in recordings, so mono cartridges did not need to track vertical modulations. Consequently they had no need for vertical compliance - which you can think of as springy suspension in the vertical plane.

Stereo records are cut so left and right channel are at 45-degrees. Each stereo channel has both horizontal and vertical components.  If a stereo record is played with a pure mono cartridge (one without vertical compliance) it will tend to plow through the vertical components, pretty much destroying the record.

That is absolutely correct. Many early stereo LPs had warnings on the jacket or sleeve to that effect.

goofyfoot

I have a true mono cartridge (individual mono coils in the left and right) and it will play fine on stereo pressings with no damage to the record.

Obviously, a true mono cartridge doesn’t have left and right coils. That’s why you’re not having issues.

goofyfoot's avatar
goofyfoot
1,589 posts
 

@cleeds No there are true mono designs made today that play in both right in left channels. Those cartridges have four pins on the back. These make up the large majority of cartridges on the market today. You can buy mono cartridges that play in only one channel and they will have two pins on the back, Most of those cartridges are specially ordered, i.e. Miyajma. The distinction between true mono cartridges and those that are not, pertains to whether a stereo cartridge was strapped. This has been discussed in past Audiogon posts to great detail.

cleeds
6,583 posts
 

goofyfoot

No there are true mono designs made today that play in both right in left channels.

Of course. But if it has vertical compliance consistent with the Westrex 45/45 system, it's not a "true mono" cartridge. It's that lack of vertical compliance that makes a true mono cartridge incompatible with a stereo LP.

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