A fresh approach to cable analysis

@total111 

there isn’t a single well-controlled double blind test that reliably confirms audible differences between cables.

That is true for pre-amps, tone-arms, cartridges, DACs, transports, tubes, amps, phono-amps, turntables, CDs, vinyl pressings, record clamps, room treatments, 44,100 Hz flac files vs 88,200 Hz flac files, etc.

In every category, there will be equipment that sounds the same (or really close).

How would you do double blind testing on room treatments?

How about two vinyl pressings from the same shelf in a record store?  No two pressings sound exactly the same.  But countless pressings sound so close that only highly revealing stereos and people with good listening skills could notice.  But there are also pressings that sound far different from each other.  So how can there be repeatable tests for any of the above?

You can go to a diner two days in a row, and your burger might taste the same, or might not taste the same.  Who prepared it?  How did they prepare it?

So of course many sets of cables will sound the same -- or nearly the same.  But there are cables that clearly sound better than others -- miles apart, even with reputable brands.

But all of the naysayers are obsessed with cables, because they never heard them sound different.  And that is because they never heard a revealing stereo, and they never had really good cables.  So because the cable deniers never heard a difference, then everyone who has clearly heard differences are wrong?

The people who actually have such quality cables in their revealing stereos are wrong?

People who never used a product should not be insisting that they are correct.  It is an absurd position.  Like never having visited a vacation spot and they know all about it.

That’s the question nobody on the other side seems eager to answer.

Answered.

Don’t weave your hands and insist it’s not necessary in such a contested situation.

Waving hands is an attempt to belittle someone's position.

Blind testing cables is a waste of time.  Either the cables will sound similar, or they will not.  When you install a set that clearly improves your stereo's sound quality, then you know that those cables are better.  Your ears clearly, and unmistakably, confirm it.  So blind testing for cables is a waste of time.

Get a set of Audioquest Wild Blue Yonder cables, and then see if you need blind testing.

The reason for cables being in a contested position is, as I wrote, due to people not conducting proper listening test, and not using a revealing stereo, and perhaps using cables that happen to sound similar.

And I would still like to see the documentation on any double blind testing, because I am confident that it will be full of holes, and with unqualified stereo gear, set-up by unqualified people.

Without knowing who did what, and with what, in blind listening tests, this will go round and round.  And isn't that convenient for cable deniers to not share what was used in the blind testing?

Minimal incentive to pay for expensive cables to dissect then becoming worthless

The above line says it all about how ridiculous is this "fresh idea".

IMO interconnects have ZERO affect on sound quality!

Haven't you already told everyone here this at least one hundred times?

99% of audiophiles fall for the advertising hype

I am not one of those 99%.  Whether I seek a new audio cable, cordless drill or the latest flavor of M&M's, I let the product speak for itself.  If the outcome does not speak for itself, it is dismissed......IMMEDIATELY; I don't let manufacturer marketing influence the  purchase.

In the old days everybody used used Radio Shack gray  Switchcraft cables and nobody complained.

Did they?  And nobody complained about waiting for the ice man, having to hang their clothes outside, dealing with no A/C every weekend when visiting grandma out in the desert every weekend.  Do you want to return to those days?  I certainly do not, anymore than I want to return to my radio shack cables from 1962.

Just a comment on the veracity of the much vaunted double blind tests. It takes at least two days for any cable to settle after I swap it into my system. I am not talking about break in, I am talking just swapping cables. This is pretty consistent in my experience. Performing a/b switching is pretty pointless, cable comparisons happen over days and weeks, not minutes or hours. Double blind tests fail by design.

My experience does not match this at all.  I read all the hype about a new power cable and finally decided to give a pair a try in my system.  Into Soundlab A1 speakers, I could swap power cables instantly without the need to power down/up anything.  The difference was immediate and huge between either the Dream State Dream Catcher or CH Acoustic X20 power cords I use vs. this new arrival power cord pair.  Dynamic contrasts and harmonic structures were severely reduced with the arrival.  This was true throughout my system, but the test at the speakers was the easiest to implement.

I honored the manufacturer's request to leave his cables in for 48 hours, listened two nights 3-4 hours each.  Then dropped the CHA X20 pair back into the speakers.  It was GAME OVER!  The dynamics, harmonics, low resolution all returned instantly.  The CHA cables had been removed, shuffled around the room, and then re-inserted......and needed no re-settling time or burn-in to show their superiority.  And no, it's not synergy.  Oh and this was with 600 hours total burn-in of the arrival by that last week.  If a cable is severely subtractive, no amount of burn-in or settling is going to do anything.

These latest responses confirm one thing clearly: people who believe in cables, believe in cables. Full stop. And honestly, that belief is self-reinforcing — it manifests as a genuinely heightened listening experience and real enjoyment. I’m not here to take that away from anyone. Enjoy every minute of it.
But please don’t conflate a subjective experience with scientific objectivity. They are not the same thing, and insisting otherwise doesn’t make it so. And while we’re at it — let’s drop the “my system is so revealing I can hear everything” angle. That’s not an argument, it’s a credential flex. For what it’s worth, I’m not listening on a clock radio either.

Into Soundlab A1 speakers, I could swap power cables instantly without the need to power down/up anything. 
 

Impressive!
 

but seriously, it appears that for some people at least they can switch a component or even a whole loom of cables and immediately know exactly how the system has changed upon listening. I for one have no criticism of you at all. You are set. You know what you want and you’ve got it. I, on the other hand, am one of the thousands out there find that of all the changes you can make to an audio system changing cables produces some of the smallest and most hard to define changes. I would like to have the best cables, and I would also like to be able to shop intelligently for them. I find that my mind can play tricks on me in this area. For example, a friend of mine once lent me a pair of old MIT cables, which I put in the system and loved immediately. Love them so much I went on eBay and bought my own set. Yet with the passage of time and the tweaking of equipment, I pulled out the old MIT‘s and put some canare star quad cable in, these were speaker cables I’m talking about. to my surprise and dismay I couldn’t hear a difference anymore. That was pretty typical of much of my experience with cables, so maybe I am cable deaf. However, fortunately, I can hear the difference between all six of my amplifiers, and all six of my pairs of speakers.

so does that make me some kind of oddball audiophile? I plead innocent and  in my defense I would like to call to the stand William Low, the founder of audioquest to give testimony in the form of his recent interview on “the occasional podcast“, which you can find a link to on this thread https://forum.audiogon.com/discussions/william-low-interview

@bruce19 ….so maybe I am cable deaf…..so does that make me some kind of oddball audiophile? 

Actually, your experience is common. Cables are a poor substitute for other components, but as part of the audio chain they usually matter depending on:

• transparency of audio chain
• individual hearing ability 
• room conditions 
• ambient noise

Differences usually might be none-slight, and more rarely significantly positive. So spend very judiciously on cables and ignore the marketing hype.

I generally believe the minimum is to upgrade stock cabling to at least a reputable audio cable.  Beyond that spend carefully.

Measurement note- I guessing most of us do not know how to measure the effects of dielectric coverings. Air-only(no-dielectric) is latest cable wisdom for the idea insulator, as such many modern designs try to minimize contact (increase air gaps). It’s not just the dielectric itself, but how to measure the effectiveness including engineered air gaps.