Should I use an external Phono Preamp

@mooks005 

This is what McIntosh says about their preamp;

As quoted by @elliottbnewcombjr -

"two unbalanced phono inputs. The phono inputs are no longer set up as dedicated for Moving Coil or Moving Magnet cartridges; instead, both are configurable as either Moving Coil or Moving Magnet with adjustable Capacitance and Resistance Loading, along with adjustable Gain in 6dB steps from 40dB to 64dB. This provides maximum flexibility for you to configure the C12000 to best fit your turntable(s), cartridge(s), and vinyl record collection."

Additionally from McIntosh's website -

"Regardless if you choose the vacuum tube or solid state output, the phono stage utilizes four 12AX7A vacuum tubes, with two tubes used per channel in a fully balanced configuration that incorporates RIAA equalization."

Stereophile, Apr 29, 2022 -

""Not only is the C12000 a very quiet preamplifier, it also offers very low levels of distortion and very high maximum output levels… With both its line and phono inputs, the McIntosh C12000's measured performance is among the best I have encountered from a preamplifier." - Stereophile"

Any of you think you can actually improve on this? I want to see your credentials!

Audphile, what is a “solid state SUT”?

Bill, you made a categorical statement to the effect that no full function preamplifier can compete with a separate phono stage. That’s what I strongly dispute. Most of the very best vinyl sound I’ve heard is via a phonolinepreamp (Raul’s term), rather than from separates. And there are valid reasons for this. To begin with, using a couple of inches of wire or of a PCB tracing is a superior connection between phono and linestage, compared to physical output and input connectors and cabling. Further, the phono and linestage can sometimes be direct coupled, without a coupling cap and buffer stage. I know we’ve been brainwashed into believing in the inherent superiority of separates, but it ain’t necessarily so.

OP,

I think your best decision, based on other’s comments (not mine, never heard yours) is to change the phono cable. lewm didn’t praise it, I respect his experience and opinions.

///////////////////////

I use a SUT because I wanted to continue to use my existing tube preamp’s MM phono, and I wouldn’t change a thing, however, they are passive, simply transformers, and if they do their job, they are noise free and do NOT change the sound. But, how do you know unless ....

//////////////////////////

Noise between tracks: I manually and vigorously scrub my LPs with a baby scalp brush, and they become very quiet, even old dogs from the 60’s. Part of some noise, when you 1st play an LP with an advanced stylus shape like your Shibata, is it digs gunk out of the bottom of the grooves that former elliptical stylus didn’t reach. Check your stylus frequently when playing existing, AND new LPs for the 1st time, sometimes new ones improve after I scrub them.

///////////////////////////////////

’upgrade your cartridge’ many say. 

Shibata on Boron, Ortofon’s technology: that’s gonna be pretty hard to do, which is why I mentioned risking buying used cartridge(s) to get otherwise unobtainable tube cantilevers. Or, some cartridges, it is said, (not by me, I’ve read but not heard them), have a distinctive or characteristic ’sound’. Good luck with that.

OP’s existing cartridge specifications:

Download user guide

Download brochure

• Channel balance at 1 kHz

  < 0,8 dB

• Output voltage at 1 kHz, 5cm/sec

  330 μV

• Channel separation at 1 kHz

  > 27 dB

• Frequency response 20 Hz - 20 kHz

  +1,5/0

• Tracking ability at 315 Hz

  90 μm

• Compliance, dynamic, lateral

  16 μm/mN

• Stylus type

  Nude Shibata on Boron cantilever

• Stylus tip radius

  r/R 6/50

• Tracking force range

  2,0-2,5 g

• Tracking force, recommended

  2.3 g

• Tracking angle

  20°

• Internal impedance, DC resistance

  5 Ohm

• Recommended load impedance

  >10 Ohm

• Cartridge body material

  Stainless steel Aluminium

• Cartridge colour

  Black/Black

• Cartridge weight

  10.7 g

My position on the use of audio equipment, is always with an element this is about the learning, but not permanently learning. When valuable lessons are had, they may be enough to want to maintain or they may be enough to be used as a viable alternate to experience a change to an ends sound on tracks that are enjoyed.

When it comes to Vinyl as a Source, I like to think I am using the Stylus to produce music, where it supported by auxiliaries in a permutation that allows the Cartridge to be its better self satisfying my own unique preference.

Up until very recently that has always been achieved using a SUT or Head Amp on a Phonostage that comes with a MC / MM Input. The MC Input might be in possession of a design where the Math strongly suggests the MC Input is the optimized circuit.

Math controls the design for the Signal Path and that is not end sound, I only assess by what is produced by the Speaker as a Kinetic Energy.  

As the Cartridge is carrying out its role and is merrily losing its usage hours, I like the countdown to be exactly as I want the end sound to be and not what the Math is controlling the end sound to be. 

Only pondering ideas and subsequently realizing them is the route I know to satisfying my own unique personal preference.

The OP is in my understanding of their recent inquiries and their notification of reinforcing ideas expressed through making a Purchase is certainly Walking the Walk, rewards will be found.

From Easter Time I wanted to seriously commence an investigation of my Digital Source. I was already lightly active prior to this, but was to become quite active in learning through using available information. It done my poor little brain - Discombobulated was I.

On the weekend after declaring my loss of bearings within my investigation.  Wifey see my pain and transferred funds that resulted in my acquiring a SS DAC.

The SS DAC is now near being tangible and readied to be compared to my Valve DAC. As well as to be used in other permutations. As the ownership evolves it will be compared to loaned in DAC's that are to become available. Only now do I feel my investigation has any removed on from a blatant levity that was in place. 

@mooks005 The Luxman is probably a nice phono pre. Tough to say if it is equal to or better than the phono stage in the 12000. Not sure where you live but it may be worthwhile getting some listening time in with your cart on someone else's system that has a similar table.