Where do classical vinyl records get their rumble from?


Recently converted back to vinyl from silver disks, I am struck by how much rumble seems to be inherent in the new and used vinyl I am buying.

A case in point, is a recent Deutsche Grammophon (DG) recording (487 7484) of Mahler’s Second Symphony made at a live performance at the Sydney Opera House (I was there).  The first set I bought was amongst the dirtiest pressings I have ever had, but the second set was much improved.  However, there is a persistent rumble whether played on my Holbo Mk2 air bearing system or my venerable Garrard 301 (new bearing from Classic Turntable Company).

Mahler typically has huge dynamic range, from muted off-stage performers to hundreds of musicians going hell-for-leather.

The rumble could be partly caused by the venue’s air conditioning system, but I hear similar background on a Telarc recording (Stereo 10051) of Saint Saens Organ Symphony made in Philadelphia.  Telarc even arranged to have local roads shut down for the recording sessions.

Similar efforts were made by DG when recording the organ at Notre Dame in Paris, where recording was done late at night to reduce traffic noise.  My copy includes Dolby Atmos on Pure-Audio Bly-ray (DG 486 1466).

I was beginning to think the rumble was inherent in my tables, but then I played a German Direct Metal Mastered (DMM) set from In-Akustik for Clearaudio’s 40th anniversary (INAK 78051 2LP).  It includes some Telarc tracks.  This set has the quietest background I’ve never heard.  There is virtually no rumble, exonerating my tables.

So apart from the recoding venue’s air conditioning and traffic noise, why do so many classical records seem to have built-in rumble?  Could it be from the mastering lathe?

I am really only thinking about classical recordings where the dynamic range approximates the signal to noise ratio of vinyl, meaning that very low-level signals are musically important, while simultaneously bumping against the noise floor.

richardbrand

@richardbrand 

@audphile1 Do you think rubber should be used in every conceivable coupling?

following indicates that in some cases where it should have been used it either wasn’t or it broke  

 

@faustuss 

Appears you've spent the last eleven or so hour grabbing at straws to think of a comeback. Did you notice that I captured quotes from yours and @audphile1's posts before you deleted them and headed for the hills because they were nonsensical and would only subject both of you to more scrutiny for your adolescent assumptions that have been the trend in this thread? You've got nothing. 

@kennyc 

I use a HRS RXR rack with RXR vibration reduction isolation platforms. Seeking another stand alone platform for my 61kg (135lb) integrated. HRS seems best but a tough budget reach

In another thread, you posted:

in high end audio, we are chasing better sound within our budgets

I suspect your rack and isolation platforms alone cost rather more than an entire Holbo air bearing system!

@audphile1 

following indicates that in some cases where it should have been used it either wasn’t or it broke 

Gough Whitlam, then Australia’s Prime Minister, was being heckled at a public meeting by a young protester "What about abortion?".

He replied "I only wish it could be made retrospective"

Say no more smiley

@lewm 

RB was questioning the frequency at which compliance is ’measured for one of his cartridges.  The correct answer cannot be "1kHz, 5cm/sec".  Raul answered RB’s question

Thanks for coming to the rescue!

Raul gave 65% as the relative difference between 100-Hz and 10-Hz, but the only compliance number I have found so far for DS Audio is at 125-Hz.

This is all rather academic because of recommendations from other users and manufacturers about what works well.  Calculations only go so far.

In other threads, I have argued about what the effective horizontal mass of the Holbo tangential arm is, concluding it must be the entire mass of the tonearm assembly that moves sideways.  For me, that works with static compliance.

But most of the tonearm's 31.6 gram mass is probably concentrated in its bearing, 6" away from the cartridge and connected to it via a rigid 1/4" tube of aluminium/carbon construction.  When dynamic side loadings are applied at say 10-Hz or 100-Hz, I would expect the arm itself to flex slightly, absorbing some of the side motion and making the effective mass less than 31.6.

What do you think?  This is for my academic interest only ...

I got my second hand RXR rack with shelves in 2019 for 5.5k. Nowadays prices much higher.

HRS and CMS seem to have the best isolation, but is pricey. Wood is a good positive alternative, maple being a favorite amongst some. Otherwise, it’s difficult to sort through the myriad of footers to find an ideal option. 

Your Holbo is a great high-value sonic buy. I picked up a used VPI Avenger rim drive with 2 VPI arms for 8k. I picked a multi arm to run a variety of cartridges including mono and SPUs. I’ve since upgraded the tonearms.