Where do classical vinyl records get their rumble from?


Recently converted back to vinyl from silver disks, I am struck by how much rumble seems to be inherent in the new and used vinyl I am buying.

A case in point, is a recent Deutsche Grammophon (DG) recording (487 7484) of Mahler’s Second Symphony made at a live performance at the Sydney Opera House (I was there).  The first set I bought was amongst the dirtiest pressings I have ever had, but the second set was much improved.  However, there is a persistent rumble whether played on my Holbo Mk2 air bearing system or my venerable Garrard 301 (new bearing from Classic Turntable Company).

Mahler typically has huge dynamic range, from muted off-stage performers to hundreds of musicians going hell-for-leather.

The rumble could be partly caused by the venue’s air conditioning system, but I hear similar background on a Telarc recording (Stereo 10051) of Saint Saens Organ Symphony made in Philadelphia.  Telarc even arranged to have local roads shut down for the recording sessions.

Similar efforts were made by DG when recording the organ at Notre Dame in Paris, where recording was done late at night to reduce traffic noise.  My copy includes Dolby Atmos on Pure-Audio Bly-ray (DG 486 1466).

I was beginning to think the rumble was inherent in my tables, but then I played a German Direct Metal Mastered (DMM) set from In-Akustik for Clearaudio’s 40th anniversary (INAK 78051 2LP).  It includes some Telarc tracks.  This set has the quietest background I’ve never heard.  There is virtually no rumble, exonerating my tables.

So apart from the recoding venue’s air conditioning and traffic noise, why do so many classical records seem to have built-in rumble?  Could it be from the mastering lathe?

I am really only thinking about classical recordings where the dynamic range approximates the signal to noise ratio of vinyl, meaning that very low-level signals are musically important, while simultaneously bumping against the noise floor.

richardbrand

@hb22 

the rumble has already been recorded on vinyl, there are such copies, and there are not a few of them

This strongly supports the contention that nearly identical artifacts are heard on two very different players.  Some records are noisy on both.  Some have nearly silent backgrounds on both.  Unfortunately for me, most of my records have very quiet passages which seem very close to the noise floor.  Some very new recordings from say Decca and DG are among my worst for high noise floors relative to the program - maybe they are trying to realistically capture bigger than usual dynamic ranges.

My test record does not have any test tracks below 5-Hz.  I could invest in better set up tools but in my opinion only azimuth and VTA are of real relevance to the Holbo, and VTA can be adjusted on the fly while listening anyway.

Can I ask for clarification - your title mentions rumble on classical records. Are there records, of any sort, without rumble? Because if there are, your turntable is not at fault.

@richardbrand my VPI table has a heavy aluminum platter. If I’m not mistaken this platter weighs about 25lbs.
In the winter when humidity is much lower there is a slight increase in the amount of static but that would be the case with any turntable. It can be mitigated by running a humidifier in the room but I don’t bother as I’m not a fan of clutter and noise making appliances. The static isn’t terrible.

Here is the platter that’s on my table.

https://www.vpidirect.com/products/prime-aluminum-platter-bearing-12-dia

 

It has been interesting to read this post. I am not an audiophile and my system, comparitivley, is dirt cheap. I like to spend my $$ on live rather than recorded performances and is 80% classical in both. I have noticed that one of my favorite vinyl recordings,  Karl Bohm Vienna Pastoral, a DG Original Master, does seem to have a lot of surface or rumble noise but I tolerated it because otherwise it is quite good. My Chris Botti Blue Note 1 is absolutely quiet, no surface noise at all as are a few others in my limited collection. My take is that it is not related to the table but to however the original recording process was conducted. (pun intended)
But to say that you never hear any surface noise or rarely hear it on vinyl just seems impossibe. At 73 I have listened to vinyl for years.  

@audphile1

my VPI table has a heavy aluminum platter. If I’m not mistaken this platter weighs about 25lbs

We can do a quick fact check!  Aluminium weighs about 0.1-lb per cubic inch.  A 1" slice of platter contains Pi x 6 x 6  or about 113 cubic inches.  So a 1" solid slice of aluminium platter comes in around 11.3-lb.  If your platter is solid and weighs 25-ibs, its thickness would be 25 / 11.3 = about 2-1/4 inches.  Certainly doable laugh

VPI does sell mats, for example:

Our VPI Black Slipmat, made to protect and keep your platter clean.  Record mats can change the sound of a musical presentation

Obviously, the heavier a platter, the heavier the conventional bearing that is needed.  Most manufacturers are looking for a flywheel effect to smooth rotational irregularities, so concentrate the platter mass towards the rim.

But few metals are good at damping vibrations, no matter what the mass.  Big Ben weighs in at 13.7-tonnes and has a very famous ring.

Cast iron is an exception because the carbon atoms dissipate energy as they hop between the relatively big holes between iron atoms.  Sophisticated lattice structures made from sintered metal powder, like the titanium laser-fused structures created by Wilson Benesch, are great at damping vibrations.  WB use them for cartridge bodies and tone arms but not platters.

Climate obviously affects static production.  Where I live, in the mountains of the driest inhabited continent on earth, we rarely get the high relative humidity needed to create leakage paths for static.  Conditions are often great for creating huge thunderstorms, which often ignite bushfires.

In fact, the terrible bushfires in Canberra in 2003 created their own severe 'dry' thunderstorms, which sparked downstream fires.  Whole pine plantations burned out, and all the remaining trunks have been bent over by the wind and 'frozen'