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Where do classical vinyl records get their rumble from?

Recently converted back to vinyl from silver disks, I am struck by how much rumble seems to be inherent in the new and used vinyl I am buying.

A case in point, is a recent Deutsche Grammophon (DG) recording (487 7484) of Mahler’s Second Symphony made at a live performance at the Sydney Opera House (I was there).  The first set I bought was amongst the dirtiest pressings I have ever had, but the second set was much improved.  However, there is a persistent rumble whether played on my Holbo Mk2 air bearing system or my venerable Garrard 301 (new bearing from Classic Turntable Company).

Mahler typically has huge dynamic range, from muted off-stage performers to hundreds of musicians going hell-for-leather.

The rumble could be partly caused by the venue’s air conditioning system, but I hear similar background on a Telarc recording (Stereo 10051) of Saint Saens Organ Symphony made in Philadelphia.  Telarc even arranged to have local roads shut down for the recording sessions.

Similar efforts were made by DG when recording the organ at Notre Dame in Paris, where recording was done late at night to reduce traffic noise.  My copy includes Dolby Atmos on Pure-Audio Bly-ray (DG 486 1466).

I was beginning to think the rumble was inherent in my tables, but then I played a German Direct Metal Mastered (DMM) set from In-Akustik for Clearaudio’s 40th anniversary (INAK 78051 2LP).  It includes some Telarc tracks.  This set has the quietest background I’ve never heard.  There is virtually no rumble, exonerating my tables.

So apart from the recoding venue’s air conditioning and traffic noise, why do so many classical records seem to have built-in rumble?  Could it be from the mastering lathe?

I am really only thinking about classical recordings where the dynamic range approximates the signal to noise ratio of vinyl, meaning that very low-level signals are musically important, while simultaneously bumping against the noise floor.

richardbrand
richardbrand's avatar
richardbrand OP
1,362 posts
 

@lewm 

I think the whole 6Hz resonance thing is a red herring

Thanks, agreed if you are looking for tonearm / cartridge resonance!  I realised last night that it is almost certainly caused by sub-plinth resonance instead.  enlightened Now I know that, if I were at home, I could just play the Tacet record louder and find out where the arm resonances are. The only instrument I am using with this record is my ear.

I am assuming the Tacet record relies on acoustic feedback to excite the resonance, which has to be big enough to cause audible mis-tracking?  But @billstevenson has caused me to query this assumption?

I am glad the problem is at least ameliorated

The only thing that has changed so far, is that I think that adding downforce makes one record sound slightly cleaner (the music, not the noise) but I doubt if I could pick it in an A/B comparison. Long term, I don't want to keep running an expensive cartridge at 150% of its recommended tracking force.

My original question about varying rumble-like noises from some classical records is still open laugh

richardbrand's avatar
richardbrand OP
1,362 posts
 

@hb22 

the rumble has already been recorded on vinyl, there are such copies, and there are not a few of them

This strongly supports the contention that nearly identical artifacts are heard on two very different players.  Some records are noisy on both.  Some have nearly silent backgrounds on both.  Unfortunately for me, most of my records have very quiet passages which seem very close to the noise floor.  Some very new recordings from say Decca and DG are among my worst for high noise floors relative to the program - maybe they are trying to realistically capture bigger than usual dynamic ranges.

My test record does not have any test tracks below 5-Hz.  I could invest in better set up tools but in my opinion only azimuth and VTA are of real relevance to the Holbo, and VTA can be adjusted on the fly while listening anyway.

dogberry
956 posts
 

Can I ask for clarification - your title mentions rumble on classical records. Are there records, of any sort, without rumble? Because if there are, your turntable is not at fault.

audphile1's avatar
audphile1
7,824 posts
 

@richardbrand my VPI table has a heavy aluminum platter. If I’m not mistaken this platter weighs about 25lbs.
In the winter when humidity is much lower there is a slight increase in the amount of static but that would be the case with any turntable. It can be mitigated by running a humidifier in the room but I don’t bother as I’m not a fan of clutter and noise making appliances. The static isn’t terrible.

Here is the platter that’s on my table.

https://www.vpidirect.com/products/prime-aluminum-platter-bearing-12-dia

 

sbsail9
19 posts
 

It has been interesting to read this post. I am not an audiophile and my system, comparitivley, is dirt cheap. I like to spend my $$ on live rather than recorded performances and is 80% classical in both. I have noticed that one of my favorite vinyl recordings,  Karl Bohm Vienna Pastoral, a DG Original Master, does seem to have a lot of surface or rumble noise but I tolerated it because otherwise it is quite good. My Chris Botti Blue Note 1 is absolutely quiet, no surface noise at all as are a few others in my limited collection. My take is that it is not related to the table but to however the original recording process was conducted. (pun intended)
But to say that you never hear any surface noise or rarely hear it on vinyl just seems impossibe. At 73 I have listened to vinyl for years.  

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