Is Sound Stage an artifact of recording?


Yesterday had the opportunity to hear a fine chamber music concert featuring musicians from the NY Philharmonic in a small modern chapel with a slightly domed wooden roof. We sat about 15-20 feet from the musicians. The all acoustic sound was excellent. The Schubert Trout piano quintet  and Brahms piano quartet in G were the program. Afterwards while de-briefing at dinner with an audiophile friend who went with me and our wives, he made the point that despite the excellent acoustics and premier seating he could not close his eyes and see a "sound stage" during the concert. I had noticed the same thing. The locations of the instruments were diffuse. You could not pinpoint the location of the violin as you might expect you could on a good recording of the same work! We agreed that this was not the first time we had noticed this about live music. So I put the question to learned assembly here on Audiogon. Is sound stage something that is invented or perhaps just an artifact of the recording process to help us get the illusion of real musicians playing in front of us. Responses from those of you who have made recordings will be particularly appreciated.

bruce19

From KISS, to Rush, Peter Frampton, Joe Walsh, and innumerable classical venues and concerts...rarely does live music sound great. Concert symphony is often very disappointing except in one notable sense...its much louder than I often listen to at home. Even so, it reminds me of the over all presentation of the classic floor box speakers produced by Macintosh in the late 70's. Blurry, boomy, muddy, and enveloping. Recorded music specifically made to be reproduced on home systems is uniquely better from anything but tiny venue jazz clubs. Now that can be great depending on your position relative to the band. Most bands or groups of musicians are generally horrible at creating good sound for the audience in a group setting. Therefore, while not reproducible in 99% of live settingsI've heard recorded music is wonderful and much less fatiguing than a boomy concert hall full of coughing, sneezing, whispering humans distracting me from enjoying the vibes. Therefore, I own a very nice home system. (More comfortable chair too) LOL

 

@tomcarr  Good point and I actually mean both because how do you perceive a sound-stage without images of the players?

@lanx0003 An artifact as I am using it means something created by a process but not necessarily intended. A by-product. It is neither good nor bad

In the case I am talking about the music was all acoustic and the room's qualities were altered by the fact that it was filled with people seated in chairs. That is a lot of objects for sound to bounce off before reaching my ears. No doubt this contributed to the lack of localization. I just think it is interesting to re-consider our systems in light of the kind of music we listen to and also the venues we wish to reproduce. Some years back @ghdprentice  and I had a discussion where I took the position that it might work best if you built a system specific to the kind of music you listened to the most and he said no, a good system was a good system and that was all you needed.  I still maintain that depending on your musical tastes you might be able to build and acoustically excellent system for not very much money if it is tailored to certain types of music. Alternatively you can build a system and room that is breathtakingly good with all music but it will be rather expensive.

An effort to recreate a 'concert hall experience' is a great way to put it. So, whatever it takes. We don't want flat sound, that's for sure, we want it to be three dimensional.

Yes, I don't care much about too sharp imaging, it feels artificial, it's got to be balanced and somewhat diffused.

Ideally, one system for all kinds of music, in reality - no, too expensive, requires very big room and swapping in and out certain components.

My modest system tailored to reproducing vocal and acoustic guitar more or less realistically. Also for ambient and tribal ambient music. It is not bad for jazzrock but not good either. And for big orchestra performance - forget it, can't handle it.

Op ... I still maintain that depending on your musical tastes you might be able to build and acoustically excellent system for not very much money if it is tailored to certain types of music. Alternatively you can build a system and room that is breathtakingly good with all music but it will be rather expensive.

I will step back, listen, and learn what 'audiophiles' are going to say about genre-specific system building and its cost implications—specifically, which fundamental elements in music are required by certain genres but not others, and how these differences translate into cost differentials in room acoustics and audio components.

What a great opportunity to learn in this high-class forum!

Very interesting topic. Listen to mono jazz and classical recordings on “big” system, e.g., Western Electric 12A/13A or Altec VoT placed properly in a good room with proper amplification and it will sound close to live (very difficult to reproduce live dynamic transients). The body loves it, feels real.

Same recordings (good ones) in stereo on same system will give you spooky imagery, soundstage, and precision of spatial presence.  The brain loves it, feels dream like.