SourcePoint 888 owners – low-end bass in open rooms?


I’ve had my MoFi SourcePoint 888s for a while now and overall I really enjoy them. They are paired with a Parasound A21 and P6 preamp. Sources are mostly vinyl (MoFi StudioDeck with MasterTracker) plus CD.

What I love:

- clarity
- separation
- dynamics
- clean sound at volume

What I’m struggling with:

I keep feeling like I’m missing some low-end weight and room-filling bass. Bass is there and sounds clean, but often it doesn’t feel as full or physically present as I expected based on reviews.

My room may be part of the issue:

- current room is approximately 11x18
- one entire side is open to the rest of the upstairs
- listening distance about 8 ft
- speaker spacing about 9 ft

I’ve already experimented extensively with:

- speaker distance from front wall
- listening position
- toe-in
- volume levels

Some recordings sound excellent and punchy, but many leave me wanting more low-end fullness and physicality.

Questions for other 888 owners:

- Are you getting strong low-end bass/fullness from these?
- Did room size or openness affect bass significantly?
- Did moving to an enclosed room help?
- Did any of you eventually add a subwoofer (REL or otherwise)?
- If so, did it “complete” the system?

Trying to determine whether:
1. this is mostly a room issue,
2. a setup/integration issue,
3. or simply the natural character of the 888s.

Thanks in advance.

mcashiola

If that's what you want and have the forum recommend how to fake bass with subs etc., knock yourself out! 

Faustuss has a point! Adding more bass via an equalizer or subwoofer (in a stereo setup) is getting away from the original music. You may rue the day you decided to engineer and mix music to your own liking. Probably better off taking the music in its original form and if the track doesn't smack you upside the head, find a better version of it, or move on.

The recording/pressing starts the magic.

Tablejockey is right about that. You did not mention the quality of your recordings, but hi-resolution tracks are required on your speakers.

Getting a pair of subs, however, may not be the solution you think you want. Be careful before plunging into subs as that may cause a host of other issues, like unwanted room bass.

Probably nearly as many here who listen to 2-channel exclusively have jettisoned their subs in time because of the realization that it does, in fact, take away from the rest of the spectrum of frequencies. 

You did not mention what type of music you listen to, but if it was hip-hop or rap, you likely would not be missing bass in your music.

If it's rock, folk, easy-listening..bass is generally not prominent in the original recordings. As Erik says, clean up your high frequencies (far less room treatment but you need to be exact when treating your reflection points) and more bass will emerge. A Bass crawl will help map room modes, so know where your bass goes before you add more of it. Subs will require bass traps and a square room would be quite challenging when it comes to room modes.

With respect to longevity, wait until you get your room finished before making decisions on components or room treatments. 

If you like the sonic presentation on some recordings one should ask the question, "Do I have enough amplification power/current?"  Underpowered systems will give up the bass first on demanding tracks.

@mcashiola, a few further thoughts.

My room is carpeted but not extra thick.  Construction is engineered wood I-beams with plywood sub flooring.  The front wall behind the speakers is load bearing over a wall in the lower level.  Overall not as substantial as concrete but no sense of flex.

Like most, the room has good and poor issues.  It is not a pure rectangle, but has adjacent openings on both side walls.  The ceiling has two coffered areas.  The downside is lots of glass along one side.  I agree with the comment of avoiding nearly square dimensions if possible.

With a 4.5-6 ohm maximum load my >100 wpc has proven adequate with no sense of inadequate power.  But I don't listen to overly loud levels, typically up to around 80 dB.  In my experience Parasound offers very good amplification so I don't believe that is a problem.

One of the multiple sonic tests I use is the opening to the soundtrack recording of Ken Burns' "The Civil War".  There are two drums played in a large open area, one is a snare, the other a small bass.  On many systems there is not a clear and clean discrimination in the pitch of these instruments.  They can somewhat blur together.  Form the beginning my 888s produced clear definition with those pitches.  But after installing the IsoAcoustic footers their differentiation became even greater.  Opposite your experience my bass is full and sometimes surprisingly present, depending on recording quality.

Anyway, good luck in sorting this out.  They are great speakers and hopefully you will bring them up to their potential.

 

Thank you all! I DO NOT wanna get away from the original music. I’m not looking for fake or exaggerated bass. I want my system to reveal in true fashion. I’ve just recently gotten concerned that there were some records that weren’t properly revealing the low end. And I definitely hear the comments from @tablejockey and others about the particular recording and pressing. For example, last night I played Blues and roots by Charles Mingus. I really thought it sounded fantastic. I had no complaints about low end while listening to that album. But, I’ve recently had a couple of folks comment to me on certain albums (albums they claim to know well) that my system wasn’t presenting the low end well and was too irritating in the mids and highs. And frankly, for the records I was listening to with them, all of that seemed true.  But then I play a record like blues and roots last night and I’m just blown away. It’s not that it had an insane amount of low end or big bass response, or anything like that. it just felt very real and balanced, and the low end was definitely present.  So I do think the particular pressing and style of music has a lot to do with it. I’ve been listening to lots of rock music, big band and jazz/blues btw.

@pryso @jrareform — I was all excited about getting to a more square room that was enclosed with carpet. I thought that would give me even more low end and overall better acoustics. Now y’all and others have me concerned that it will be an issue. But Oh well, there’s nothing I can do to change the layout of the room it’s fixed. Once we have the work complete I may be back on here looking for suggestions on how to enhance the acoustics of the new room. That’s for another day.

I also forgot to mention that I have felt sliders underneath the feet of the speakers so that I can slide them back-and-forth on the wood floor easily for speaker placement. After reading comments from some of you, I removed those to see if it would make a difference. I can’t imagine why it would because they’re pretty thin, but it seems like it’s actually helped somewhat. anyway, just wanted to mention that. When I get to carpeted flooring I may have to try the iso acoustic footers