I’m interested in getting a new Denafrips DAC

I think it is more than fair to consider the lack of US support of many "Eastern" made products before purchasing. With that said I have personally purchased direct from companies such as Laiv & Denafrips without issue. I will note that correspondence with Laiv was more engaging & thorough on their part. One sentence replies from Denafrips is enough for them. 

I personally feel that Denafrips has solidified themselves in the US hifi hobby at this point. I was interested in their products since inception but I held out til the 15th model came around. I just kept an eye out for user reviews & took in their shared experiences. Pretty positive from what I've seen. The grumblings about how quickly they were upgrading or coming out with new models was bothersome to me but the 15th models seemed liked a great time to actually try a product. 

To know that I was basically getting a Venus 12th with some improvements for the $2k price of a Pontus 15th seemed like a no brainer. I understand why they are so popular now. Since that first purchase of the P. 15th I've used the Venus 15th & an older Pontus as well. All of them are very good with the P. 15th being great for the money.. meaning it's better than it's price. 

The Venus 15th that I used for a little while was not mine. As much as I absolutely loved it, & would love to own my very own I have to be honest & say that if I had the bread to afford it I would probably look at Dacs from more established or long lived companies first. More US support. To me the V. 15th is at a price where I can't just be rolling the dice when it comes to future support & longevity. For me at that price I need to consider it maybe becoming a life long piece.. me being in my 50's. 

Resale is always something I take into account as well. The Pontus model in general seems to hold good value.. respectfully at least. When the P.15th hit the market those Venus 12th units took a hit. I seen them on the used market getting no love. People marking them down as low as $2k. But why buy it even at a great deal when you can get the P. 15th.. new?  I can definitely understand why early buyers of this brand would be irritated with their inability to sit still. 

Anyway, a company like Denafrips could easily reverse any concerns of US buyers by adding a couple more support centers in the US. Having one is good but 3 or 4 would be great. And actually keeping the 3 or 4 for many years would further ease the minds of potential buyers. It's common sense in my opinion. Their products are legitimately great. Good value is how I would consider the ones I've tried. They should focus on good support just as much as their next new launch. Spending north of $4k on a Dac is a lot of money for a good percentage of people. More people will do that if the trust is there.. the trust that I'll be taken care of if an issue appears. 

curiousjim

I've owned, tested, and installed (in friends systems), dozens of Denafrips DACs & DDCs over the last 4 years....and never had a problem with a single one. It is a shame that Alvin Chee (Vinshine) no longer handles their products as he is a real stand up guy in the "Chi Fi" world.....but that is not unusual in the audiophile world; dealers come and go.

That said, Denfrips still makes incredibly sounding gear, and I would  never hesitate to buy their DACs. I'm upgrading my Pontus/Iris combo later this year, and the  Terminator 15th and Terminator Plus 15th are right near the top of my consideration list.

I am one who does love the Denafrips house sound, with the fun, enjoyable, enveloping sound that makes me want to listen longer. As you go up the model line, you keep that sound signature but layer in greater levels of detail.....but NEVER harsh or sibilant. Let us know how you get one, I'd love to hear your thoughts

"Denafrips has proprietary parts designed into their DAC's that cannot be sourced in the USA. The FPGA-based DSP engines and discrete R2R resistor ladder networks are just two DAC board level components that are unavailable to third-party distributors in the US."

I find this hilarious since so many US products have their manufacture in China and then they steal the technology and sell it as their own, ignoring all copyrights and US patents.

I had Denafrips on my short list to check out for DACs but have now eliminated all Chi Fi from consideration, especially from a customer support standpoint.

@vthokie83 

I kinda have permission to get the Venus 15th,  but that took a lot of groveling and begging I don’t think I have it in me to ask for

 and the  Terminator 15th and Terminator Plus 15th are right near the top of my consideration list

Question, how big of a difference did the DDC make and can you describe?  
 

Thanks.

@cooperdude6 

I find this hilarious since so many US products have their manufacture in China and then they steal the technology and sell it as their own, ignoring all copyrights and US patents.

I had Denafrips on my short list to check out for DACs but have now eliminated all Chi Fi from consideration, especially from a customer support standpoint.

Of course, you are right in that China steals intellectual property. But, I think you misunderstood my remark.

Denafrips uses proprietary, custom-coded FPGA (Field Programmable Gate Array) chips for digital signal processing and decoding, not off-the-shelf solutions. So, while the FPGA hardware itself may be sourced globally, the specialized firmware code is proprietary to Denafrips. The chips, and hard-coded software deployed inside those chips, is completely dark. No one has any idea as to what code they contain. Of course, it can be nefarious in nature.

The above paragraph is exactly the same reason America does not allow BYD and other car mfg’s to sell in America. Same goes for the Chinese telecom Huawei, which America blocked from doing business in the USA - they are national security risks. Proprietary in America is generally accepted as a product that only that company can produce or provide, but when a proprietary product comes from China, it can mean an entire slew of offensive, criminal intent - aimed at taking something from you.

To be blunt, for all those that use Denafrips DDC units and DACs, those devices can be devised (proprietary; remember?) to steal your network information. Any device that operates in a data chain connected to a network can do this. Hence, the American distrust of Chinese devices.

While I have a Denafrips DDC in my chain, it is not connected to a network. My music comes from my computer, but I do not connect it to the Internet as it serves as a jukebox only.

Generally speaking, however, most Denafrips users allow open access of their equipment to the Internet to download music. There is no on/off switch for my Gaia, so I keep it tuned on 24/7, which I assume everyone else does.

I agree that with all the great American made DAC’s, I doubt a Denafrips is the best choice nowadays. Not from just a security standpoint - because I know no one here cares about that - but the support mechanisms have dwindled to one guy. 

I only bought the Denafrips DDC because it was the best one on the market and I got a great used deal. Schiit finally came out with a DDC recently and I would have bought that had it been a viable option at the time.