You need serious power to get good bass out of the scintilla. I have a pair of duetta 2 and a Krell ksa 300s amplifier these are easier to drive than the scintilla, but still require a decent amount of power due to the sensitivity. One of the best systems I ever heard was a Diva with an active crossover using audio research 610T amplifiers with 600 tube watts per channel on the midrange/tweeter and Krell 750 watt monoblocks powering the bass foils, it didn’t lack bass. The Krell kst isn’t powerful enough for the scintilla, it doesn’t have the power supply like the Krell ksa or fpb amplifiers.
Apogee Scintilla’s: Buying advice and are they worth the hassle
Hi, I’m recently looking to acquire a pair of Apogee Scintillas (the later one ohm only version), and have recently auditioned for a pair.
First, my own newbie impressions: They are the first full range ribbon speakers I’ve ever heard, and I really like the insane transparency in the midrange and highs and the soundstage they create are scarily real, with the only downside being that the bass isn’t really solid, making it preform really well on jazz strings and female vocals but not so much on male vocals and symphonies. Overall though I would say while they seem to be specialist speakers for particular genres of music, in these genres they really shine, and I was pretty impressed.
For those who have owned Apogee full range ribbons and those who are familiar with planar speakers, do you find them easier to fail than speakers with traditional drivers? I know that the Scintillas are notorious for their 1 ohm loads, which would require a Krell or Mark Levinson from that era to power. Furthermore, the foam that holds the ribbons taut tend to rot if not taken care well. Has any of this been a problem that may indicate a high probability for a repair job given their age? Also, is the Krell KST-100 sufficient to power them?
Lastly, I’d like to inquire as to whether there is any advice for checking the speakers condition. During my audition, the seller was powering them with a McIntosh MC7270 I’ve played a slew of tracks, which the speakers seem to play without trouble. However, nearing the end of my audition I played Capricho Arabe preformed by Mats Bergstrom, and I noticed a distortion at the end of higher notes, and the track after that also displayed a similar behavior. I’ve noticed the power of the McIntosh reached maximum a few times during stronger attacks, so it might very well be distortion because the amplifier was clipping, but when the volume was turned down the distortion persists, only ceasing after I turned the volume to whispering levels. Curiously, this only happened for the last two tracks and not for the other tracks I’ve played during the audition.
Is there anyway I could differentiate whether the distortion was due to the amplifier clipping or physical defects of the ribbons, given that I nor the seller seems to have a sufficient amplifier to power them properly, and what other physical appearances could I check to make sure they are in good condition? I noticed there are crinkles on the ribbons (shown in the pictures), are these normal, or are they ribbon sag which might explain the distortion?
I apologize if this has been a very long post, but it is a significant purchase for me, and any advice would be very welcome. Thanks in advance!
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I was fascinated by ribbon speakers for probably over thirty years, speakers with Heils first then I owned Apogee Slant 8’s for over a decade... powered by a Threshold s500 and then a Pass x350. Massive power is required. I enjoyed the things you point out. I have a friend that has pair of Apogee Baby Grand and has had them for over thirty years. I don’t think they are particularly fragile. I think they sound best with tube amps. It helps fill them out. They are a big challenge to set up. The location, toe-in, and rake are incredibly important...to 1/8th inch. I enjoyed the years with them. Then I spent a lot of time listening to live music and began to appreciate the gestalt of the music more than some of the specifics and moved on to dynamic speakers which are better at overall coherence top to bottom and are so much easier to place. That is my journey. I am sure you will enjoy them if you get them. I’d recommend a Pass XA or Krell for solid stat amplification. I find Mark Levenson to be pretty lifeless although accurate and MacIntosh to rolled off and lean in the details. But you will need an amp with massive current to make them sound great.
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I agree with everything said having owned Apogee Diva's and Centaur Majors. The Diva's were powered by a Classe Omega Stereo Amp 450wpc into 8ohms and 1800wpc into 2ohms. I preferred the Classe Omega Sound to the Krells I had KMA 200's and 750mcx's and to the Pass Labs XA600. The Pass had problems handling the load, I would get high end distortion and ringing. It may be the amp having problems with the low impedance causing the problem. My friend had a pair of Scintilla's that he powered with a Pair of Classe Omega Stereo amps and loved it. He preferred it to his Krell Evolution One and Two setup that he wound out selling. I do have my Classe Omega Reference Mono's for Sale that are stable to into a 1 ohm load and put out 4000wats at 1ohm. The Classe's definitely make Apogee's sing. As for if there is a problem its typically with the bass panels, but they are repairable! http://www.reality-audio.com/apogeerepairs.html Here is the link to my ad for the Classe and Stereophile review. https://www.audiogon.com/listings/lisbfgie-classe-omega-reference-mono-s-beautiful-amps-solid-state https://www.stereophile.com/content/classé-omega-monoblock-power-amplifier Good Luck with your Purchase. I loved the Apogees and currently own Martin Logan CLX Arts ( .7ohm load problem, lol) that I am using with custom made Dipole woofer towers, they sound incredible! I almost just bought a pair of Apogee Full Range because that is how good my Diva's were but decided to stick with my Logans. |
Great sounding speaker but notoriously difficult to drive at their 1 ohm setting. I'd try to locate a pair of Classe Audio DR3 VHC pure class A power amplifiers which put out 100 watts per channel Class A power when strapped for mono use. They've been considered an ideal pairing with the Scintilla for many decades. You're probably looking at about $4000 to $5000 for a pair plus service if needed.
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