So when is a SUT really needed?


Hey,

So, I been in this audiophile world for about 6 or 7 years now, at least that is when I bought a bit more serious equipment. Before that I had some stuff but wasn't that serious about it.

Still consider myself a newbie but have gained much more knowledge about this hobby compared to before.

But there is one piece of equipment that I hear about all the time but didn't really take a look at it before.

I am referring to the Step Up Transformer.

Just recently I started to read more about it and watch YT videos on it.

I also googled the purpose but it's just technical jargon and I rather get feedback from real people and users.

So, my understanding is that a SUT is used to control a MC Cart and it would work between the TT and Phono Amp connecting to the MM inputs (is that correct)?

But if you already have a Phono Preamp with MC adjustments, do you still need a SUT or is it used more in the situation where you may only have a MM preamp and want to use MC Carts?

Also, are all SUT's passive equipment, meaning they do not utilize a power plug or are there some that do?

Would there be reasons to use a SUT if you already have a good phono preamp with all the same adjustment options?

Thanks

jay73

@nandric 

"The reason is: the higher amplifiaction  by MC phono-pres the higher distortions.

The ’’old Lukatschek’’ just produced the ’’younger brother’’ of Ortofon MC2000

called  BENZ EBONY  TR (TR for transfomer; output 0,1mV imedance 1 Ohm)..

Do members of Audiogon pretend to know better?"

The noise floor of vinyl is around 70 dB; most preamp designers have absolutely no trouble achieving that even at gain levels of 70dB or more. A couple cases in point.

Luxman E-07 phono preamplifier -

"In MM mode, the Luxman preamp’s unweighted, wideband S/N ratio, measured at the balanced outputs with the single-ended inputs shorted to ground and ref. 1kHz at 5mV, was a superb 81.6dB (average of both channels). Restricting the measurement bandwidth to 22Hz–22kHz increased the ratio to 84.6dB, while the A-weighted ratio was an astonishingly high 90.2dB. In MC mode, the ratios were approximately 9–10dB lower than in MM mode; this is still a very low level of noise. Spectral analysis of the E-07’s low-frequency noisefloor in MM mode ref. 1kHz at 5mV (fig.2) revealed that both the random noise and the supply-related spuriae were very low in level.

The E-07's overload margins in both MC and MM modes, ref. 1kHz at the standard MC level of 500µV and the standard MM level of 5mV, were excellent, at 28dB from 20Hz to 20kHz. The E-07 offered very low distortion. Fig.3

shows the spectrum of the preamplifier's balanced output reproducing 1kHz at a level just 6dB below the MM input overload voltage. The only distortion harmonics that can be seen above the noisefloor are the second, at –120dB (0.0001%), the third, at –124dB (0.00006%), and the fifth, at –126dB (0.00005%). These very low levels were identical when I repeated the analysis at the single-ended output; the second harmonic remained at the same level when I reduced the load impedance to the current-demanding 600 ohms, though the third harmonic rose to a still-negligible –116dB (0.00015%).

Intermodulation distortion with an equal mix of 19kHz and 20kHz tones at a peak input level 6dB below the MM clipping voltage at 20kHz was superbly low (fig.4).

The difference product at 1kHz and the higher-order products all lay close to –114dB (0.0002%)."      - John Atkinson Stereophile Magazine

Luxman EQ-500 phono preamplifier -

"With the inputs set to MM, the overload margin at 1kHz was excellent, at 30dB ref. 5mV, but this worsened at the frequency extremes, to 15dB at 20Hz and 12dB at 20kHz. The MC overload margins, ref. 1kHz at 500µV, were similar. Harmonic distortion at normal levels was low, at typically 0.05%. Spectral analysis (fig.3)

revealed that the primary harmonic present was the second, at –67dB. This graph was taken into 100k ohms; reducing the load impedance to a punishing 600 ohms increased the level of the second harmonic by almost 20dB—but the Luxman will never be used with so low a load. Intermodulation distortion (fig.4)

was a little higher than I would have liked to have seen, the difference product at 1kHz resulting from high-level tones at 19 and 20kHz lying at –47dB (0.4%) in the left channel and –50dB (0.3%) in the right. Higher-order products, however, are much lower in level.

With the EQ-500 set to MM (moving-magnet), the voltage gain at 1kHz was 36.4dB with the gain set to "36," 38.4dB with it set to "38," and 40.5dB with it set to "40." (A 1mV input signal was indicated as –20dB on the front-panel level meters with them set to Low, –10dB with them set to High.) With the phono inputs set to MC (moving-coil), the gain was 55.9dB (MC High) and 56.5dB (MC Low), but these measured gains were affected by the interaction of the EQ-500’s input impedance of 56 ohms (High) and 7 ohms (Low) with the Audio Precision’s output impedance of 20 ohms. Correcting for the voltage-divider action gives respective gains of 58.6 and 68.2dB, which are close to the specified gains of 55 and 67dB.

Almost no power-supply–related spuriae are visible, and the unweighted, wideband signal/noise ratios (ref. 1kHz at 5mV and taken with the inputs shorted to ground) were good, at 59dB in the left channel, 65dB in the right. An A-weighting filter improved these ratios to 77.2 and 78.5dB, respectively. Unlike that of a phono preamplifier with an active MC gain stage, the EQ-500’s noise performance was almost the same with its MC settings, due to the use of internal step-up transformers."      - John Atkinson Stereophile Magazine

Please don’t make the assumption that this performance is strictly in the realm of components at this price level since if you do the research this can be achieved in other designs at much lower price points that can be utilized with phono cartridges at respectively similar value.

I use Basis Exclusive at 42 dB with Denon 340 (modify ) at 3Ohm =+ 35 dB

for all MC at 0,2 mV or lower .

Addition reg. modification: All switctes are removed and TAMURA TMS 83

direct connencted with in - and out connectors.

Thanks for all the great feedback and insight.

I have a lot to study here.

Thxn!

 

 

RB, Sorry for the 2 day delay in posting this comment, but I have been busy.  I also apologize for seeming to harp on your post of Feb 17, but there are a few issues with which I take serious issue, and since we think we are talking to the OP as if he is a neophyte, I thought it was worthwhile to set the record straight, at least as I see it.  You wrote the following:

"In general, there is a trade-off between output and trackability - the ability to precisely follow the groove.  For good trackability, you want low effective tip mass, which means smaller parts and less output.

There's another subtle consideration.  MM and MC cartridges must generate electricity, which reduces trackability as generating power electrically 'stiffens' the stylus."

Yes, it's true that the average LOMC cartridge (low output example) exhibits low compliance, but it is compliance along with a few other related parameters, not output, that determines the ability to track the groove. For example, there are a few LOMC cartridges with high-ish compliance (perhaps not as high compliance as anyone's favorite MM), and they do track well.  You went on to say that there is a correlation between tip mass and output, but in fact among electromagnetic cartridges (to exclude optical cartridges), the type with lowest tip mass is moving iron. And high output MI cartridges can have very high compliance. Furthermore, MM cartridges have the highest output among electromagnetic cartridges and on average track best. Finally, as far as I know, what is said to "stiffen the stylus" in the case of an LOMC is when they are driving a lowish input impedance.  This is sometimes given as a reason to use a 47K ohm load even with LOMC cartridges.  Furthermore, some gurus with expertise beyond mine doubt the importance of the phenomenon entirely. I think you got some of the foregoing ideas from the DS Audio website, wherein they may be drumming up reasons for a optical cartridge, but maybe one should not have to swallow the whole enchilada.  If it will sound good, it is good.