Some thoughts about tonearm wire


Recently, I purchased a used AT-1100 tonearm with two arm tubes.  It has the original factory silver wire, a nice touch I thought.  When I open the arm up to clean the bearings and re-oil them, I discovered the tonearm wire is so thin that it is not much thicker than the thin hair on my balding head!  I am talking about the OD of the insulation, the wire itself is much thinner!  The other tonearms I opened up to clean and re-oil, the copper wire was so much thicker.  

I am not making a comment here about whether silver or copper is better.  But no one seems to consider the wire gauge of the wire in question when discussing sound quality vs. wire material.  Regardless of how one material might sound over another, if the resistance, capacitance, and inductance is the same, the comparison has merit.  This silver wire is so thin, I can't help to think any sound improvement (or loss, depending on your viewpoint) is swamped by the gauge differences.   

Sure, silver is a better conductor than copper, but only when the gauge is the same. Once the silver wire gauge gets smaller, copper starts having an advantage in resistance, while silver starts having an advantage in reduced capacitance and disadvantage in higher inductance when compared to copper of a given gauge.  

I can't help thinking gauge is one thing that differentiates sound quality of silver vs. copper in tonearm wiring, as well as cabling to the preamp.  Those MC signals are tiny, and MM or MI is not a lot better. MC sees a very low impedance, so inductance and resistance becomes more of a factor than capacitance.  MI and MM sees a much higher impedance, so capacitance becomes more dominant than inductance or resistance.

Thoughts or comments?

 

 

spatialking

Being an Individual who has supplied to an individual a variety of Wire Types to be used as the Wire used, as a Continuous Wire in a particular Tonearm. I can say all wite types I have supplied, are a wire capable of delivering a signal that is described as an improvement over the OEM wire being replaced.

More importantly trials showed, prior to my period of purchasing. A Wire must be a particular diameter or less, with a suppleness which I will refer to as extremely soft. Any wire used outside of these parameters used a Continuous Wire, are proven to interfere negatively with the mechanical function of the Tonearm, able to create am impeding friction to both Bearings, negatively effecting the freedom of function. Only internal modifications to the Tonearm are going to substantially reduce the unwanted impeding friction.

An alternative for the Wiring Design for producing a Continuous Wire for a  TA. Quite easily can become one, where the individual chooses any wire they are attracted to.

If the Wire choice is off a certain diameter, it is certain to be causing substantial resistance to freedom of bearing movement, who knows until trialled, even a seizure is a possibility as the outcome.

Considering countering measures as the requirement to aid movement will be quite important. Maybe even to the extreme where the TT user stands local to the Tonearm and places a finger on the Headshell. Applying side force with the finger, to assist with completing the groove travel for the stylus from Outer Dead Wax to the Inner Dead Wax.

To fully get the most valuable outcome from trials more than one TA must be used, to A/B changes being made. Well this is what I have experienced as the methodology and supplied ears to assess as well.    

Being an Individual who has supplied to an individual a variety of Wire Types to be used as the Wire used, as a Continuous Wire in a particular Tonearm. I can say all wite types I have supplied, are a wire capable of delivering a signal that is described as an improvement over the OEM wire being replaced.

More importantly trials showed, prior to my period of purchasing. A Wire must be a particular diameter or less, with a suppleness which I will refer to as extremely soft. Any wire used outside of these parameters used a Continuous Wire, are proven to interfere negatively with the mechanical function of the Tonearm, able to create am impeding friction to both Bearings, negatively effecting the freedom of function. Only internal modifications to the Tonearm are going to substantially reduce the unwanted impeding friction.

An alternative for the Wiring Design for producing a Continuous Wire for a  TA. Quite easily can become one, where the individual chooses any wire they are attracted to.

If the Wire choice is off a certain diameter, it is certain to be causing substantial resistance to freedom of bearing movement, who knows until trialled, even a seizure is a possibility as the outcome.

I have already pointed this out several posts ago when I said -

Thin wire has the advantage of less interference with the bearing motion.

You would be surprised at the "audiophile" rewires that put pressure on the bearings....

Furthermore, when you said 

Considering countering measures as the requirement to aid movement will be quite important.

Sorry mate, if you put stiff wire or a wire loom that impedes free bearing motion, you can't put in "countering measures". The only fix is to remove the impediment. This is basic physics.

 

 

@kennyc Actually, you missed the point I was making.  If the gauge is not the same when making the comparison, then the variables of inductance, resistance, and capacitance start to become the dominant factors in sound quality,   

Case in point: that AT-1100 tonearm has what I would estimate as 50g silver wire, while the copper wire I considered replacing it with was 30g.  That is a very significant difference!  If they are both 50g, then inductance and capacitance is very similar, while resistance is slightly better with the silver.  Likewise, if they are both 30g.

Put another way, let's take an extreme example.  As wire gauge gets smaller, inductance goes up.  Consider that 50g silver wire that runs 1 meter from the cartridge to the pre-preamp for a MC cartridge needing a 30 Ohm termination impedance.  If that was the case, the bandwidth would drop to about 3KHz!  So, 50g silver vs 30g copper?  That 30g wins every time, regardless if is 30g silver or 30g copper.

In this case, you can squeeze by using silver for a short length, then switching to a heavier gauge wire for the longer run to the pre-preamp.  If you still had 6 inches of silver 50g wire, the bandwidth jumps to about 19 KHz.  

I don't know the gauge of that silver wire in the AT-1100 tonearm, but I can tell you that the diameter of the silver wire plus insulation is thinner than the stripped bare 30g copper tonearm wire I purchased.

So, if you are comparing silver vs copper or perhaps Brand A copper to Brand B copper, it is wise to make sure they are the same gauge wire.  So compare apples to apples and not apples to oranges.

And all this assumes the wire construction is the same!  If not, well, then you back to apples vs oranges.

@dover Yep, you are absolutely correct.  That tiny silver wire in the tonearm is about as flexible as air.  The 30g copper I bought is flexible enough when bare, but the insulation made it rather stiff, so I didn't bother to replace it.  Having great bearings becomes meaningless when the tonearm wire is stiff.  I am sure AT considered this when choosing that thin wire.

@dover WOW!!! LOL I did not know you had a comedy side to you.   

I kept info in my post about a Continuous Wire design on a removable Wand Tonearm, where the Wire is a run from Cartridge lead out Pins through to the RCA connection at the Phonostage.

Wire that is used within the OEM Model, is soldered onto concealed within the Wand Connectors, between Head Shell Bayonet Connection and the attachment to bearing assembly, is wire that does not impact on the freedom of movement.

Wire attached to the Connector on the bearing assembly and RCA Phono Cable connection is able to impact on the freedom of the bearing movement.

I proposed the methodology for a wiring, that is required to do away with connections onto the concealed connectors and explained the Tonearm would then become a permanent attached Wand Tonearm. Expecting for some users feeling that this restriction was to be unattractive for their intentions.

Your final comment is just hilarious, almost to the point you are believing a poor April Fool. How Blind are those in Love and those carrying Hate.

Mate did you get your wires crossed surprise