What Does 80 Grand Get You Nowadays?


A system was playing in a shop. I sat down and pretty soon I thought gosh, I’m glad my system sounds better than this.

That system - just preamp, amp, and speakers - cost about $80,000 new.

I didn’t make the speakers at first, because Sabrinas look far better than the usual Wilson house look. They were driven by one of those new high-end Marantz amps, and I don’t think that was a match made in heaven. The Marantz was driven by a Dan D’Agostino pre that looked like a Minion had been crushed in a hydraulic press. Audiophile music was streaming, but I did not catch whence issued those dulcet ones and zeroes.

I suppose that system constitutes high-end for some. Now, it certainly sounded competent, but it also sounded boring. I thought, this is the Audi SUV of audio: competent and boring.

Conversely, I was impressed and pleased to no end that the end sound of my modest system from the last century could play in the same league as an almost-six figure modern system, and do so in a more engaging and fun fashion - to my ears, at least.

I’m biased, of course; and I am certain many high-priced systems out there leave mine in the dust. Still, I would have thought $80,000 guaranteed a better baseline sound.

How about you, have you heard a lot of gear whose sound was way out of whack with its price?

 

devinplombier

perhaps you have a bias for your equipment, seeing how you fixed it.

@invalid 

Kind of... but not a whole lot more than if I had bought it fully functioning. What DIY does give me though is a good knowledge of and appreciation (or not) for how my gear was designed and built and how it works.

I have maybe half a dozen Carver pieces around my house. They sound good and they’re pretty. But three of them grossly overheated as designed (I fixed that), and the PCBs look like they’ve been slapped together by gibbons.

Bob Carver said about pro audio equipment, "it’s made to play loud and not break"

Hmm. Bob spoke the truth that time :)

@devinplombier wrote:

Mindsets and beliefs related to audio and gear are cyclical. For instance, 50 years ago lamp cord was considered just fine, so fine indeed that power cords were permanently attached to components. Now the pendulum has swung all the way the other way, but as more and more folks realize the absurdity of spending as much money on a power cord as on the component it’s attached to, attitudes will continue to evolve and the zeitgeist revert to the mean.

You wonder why there isn’t more of a middle ground with power cords - maybe when the pendulum is one its way back we can experience the path in between on its way back to the other extreme.

I get the feeling that just because people don’t pay thousands of dollars for power cords it must follow they don’t care at all and that lamp cords is all it takes. [...] I’ve used my own low price DIY power cords for over a decade now, behind which there are conscious design decisions, and while I wouldn’t claim there aren’t better alternatives out there they just get out of the way not feeling like a bottleneck. Very well then, now let’s move on with the other, more important stuff. 

It’s doubly interesting what you say, because 50 years ago pro and "audiophile" gear coexisted and were often interchangeable. McIntosh made both the pro MC2200 and hifi MC2205 - different face plates, same exact amp; it was OK to have a Crown amp powering your living room system; and so on.

Many audiophiles seem oblivious of the high level of engineering capacity and skill the pro sector really holds. Pro amps aren’t made to deliberately sound bad, for those who might believe that, but to be reliable, well cooled (actively with fans), powerful and with no fuss sonics that reflect good designs.

PA amps nowadays are very much about efficiency, very high power and cutting down weight (so, class D variations), but that doesn’t make them bad designs or necessarily "incompatible" sound-wise with home audio reproduction. Fixed installation studio amps (my preferred pro amp segment) have some manufacturers stick with class A/B topology for the best possible sound and where higher weight isn’t an issue.

I’ve heard older Crown amps like the Macro Tech 1200 which, apart from their cooling fans that produce noise akin to an angle grinder, were very well sounding. As is the Amcron DC300 series II and Crown Studio Reference I and II, as well as and not least my own MC²  Audio S800 amps that won’t lose face against amps costing tens of thousands of dollars (which, like your example with the McIntosh amp, has a hi-fi sibling costing a lot more). 

The high-end sector of hi-fi by comparison is a more or less boutique and highly idiosyncratic product segment that often tries to distinguish itself with a sonic "flavor" and fancy (i.e.: expensive) looks. 

Even today, gear closely related to pro audio is actually sought after by audiophiles, as long as it presents in appropriate audiophile clothes. JBL Summit series, Bricasti, Bryston, Yamaha 5000 series, etc. Can the days be far ahead when things go full circle and pro gear is widely embraced by audiophiles? As always, education will help sort things out.

I believe that would take a paradigm shift that isn’t likely to happen unless the world at large would face a severe and long lasting recession. Even then I doubt audiophiles in general would be willing to accept pro segment products in "working clothes" and a large size factor with speakers; they still need the nice wrappings and glimmer that exudes exclusivity and that particular hi-fi/high-end scent.

In a way I prefer things a they are as it makes it easier to come by the interesting products of the pro arena without having to pay a fortune because the demand is skyhigh. 

@invalid wrote:

I also like what Bob Carver said about pro audio equipment, "it’s made to play loud and not break".

While true it’s what isn’t said that’s interesting: it’s also how the majority of audiophiles view pro audio equipment, but importantly with the implicit extension to "It’s made to play loud and not break" with "... and nothing more." However the level of design pedigree and sonic potential to be found here is plentiful - for those willing to let loose preconceptions and look a little closer. 

A few years ago, I heard a similarly expensive Naim and Kudos system at a dealers. At first, it did not appeal to me at all.

On subsequent visits, I came to appreciate that it was getting the fundamentals right.

What had been putting me off was the superficial character of the sound. This was something I got used to in time. The system was actually superb. Yet, I could have easily dismissed on first hearing.  

@newton_john ”Yet, l could have easily dismissed on first hearing.”

Sorry, but l just saw the funny side of your post. Completely off topic but to do with your decision making…..

l would not fancy being an innocent party on trial, and with you being one of the jurors.. Unless you were like Henry Fonda in the film “12 Angry Men”, and after “first hearing” all of the apparent adverse prevailing evidence against me,  l wouldn’t stand a chance.

 

Just thought l would lighten up the discussion, of course I expect you would be just like Henry Fonda, and make the right judgment. No offence intended.

Moral of the story….. Do not listen to Naim products for good first impressions.

Mike O Neill designed the drivers and everything else for an audiophile speaker which sells for 200k. Guy also made the drivers for his EV pro speakers that sell for 4k. Did he get dumber because the price was lower? He certainly didn’t.

TAD makes the drivers and everything else for the audiophile and the speakers sell for 100k+. The same guys designed the drivers and everything else for Pro Pioneer and it sells for 12k. Did the TAD guy get dumber because the price got lower? He certainly didn’t.

Moral of the story.....Don’t let the audiophiles (wouldn’t pass Econ 101) get within 200 yards of some of the pro stuff or the price may skyrocket..... 

Many audiophiles seem oblivious of the high level of engineering capacity and skill the pro sector really holds.