bits is bits


Being a retired IT tech, Iʻm a "bits is bits" guy. I keep seeing people rank different  streaming services against each other and I have to say, Iʻm mystified. Modern recordings are all digital masters and remastered. If two different hi-res streaming services, say Qobuz and Tidal, have the same track available, why would one sound different from the other, let alone better?

 

The stream is being fed over TCP/IP from the source, and I see no reason that it you were to do a cksum on the same file/track being delivered by either streaming service, that they would exactly match.  So why do people claim better sound from one streaming source over the other.  Iʻm assuming they are both full resolution sources, not mp3.

russbutton

Current IT guy, with decades of data center experience. 

We never worried about noise, EFI/EMI on any switches, anyone who is has been in a DC looked at how racks are cabled would loose their mind. We loop up loose cables, power and signal is not always separated. Wires are tied tougher. Lots of equipment stacked on top of each other. 

It's totally amazing that anything works at all (sarcasm). Think all of us professional IT people don't have a clue what we are doing, apparently nothing is being supplied properly to the end user. Wish all these $200,000 servers, switches, storage arrays had some linear power supplies. We got to do something about all these noisy fans, can we just turn them off? 

Can't believe I was able to run a 4k video editing suite with all this poor setup. How did it even work? 

Hi-Rez stream takes about 2mb of bandwidth. Almost all of have at least 100mb. Streaming is using up about 2% of your bandwidth. Speed is not an issue. 

Noise, the cheaper the component, usually the less EMI blocking it will have. Never in my IT career has EMI caused any transfer issues. If your streamer is transferring all this "noise" then you have a poorly made streamer. 

Jitter, any network guy knows this is a real issue, but usually there are reasons for it. Very different from clock jitter. 

I have noticed that different streaming services sound different. Spotify for instance likes to boost bass. Qobuz/Tidal are about the same, don't notice anything specific across the range. Apple, can sound dry, compressed. Never used Amazon. 

Same goes for movie streaming platforms, think Apple does the best with picture/sound, then HBO. Amazon is ok, but they boost the sound, picture can have artifacts. Netflix is neutral, Precook/Paramount are the worst.

Proper setup, good quality certified lan cables, should be enough unless you are trying to get the last 2% out of your music. Yeah, almost none of the analog tweaks will do anything for digital. It just doesn't work that way. 

the general tenets of networking...

Optical is usually best.

Few hops as possible. 

shortest cables should be used

fewest conversions possible 

Of course proper network setup. 

While I understand the concept of digital perfect transmission and error correction etc I assume there is also a software driver, firmware, decoder, or whatever unique to each service Tidal, Qobuz, Amazon.

Roon uses RAAT. What is Tidal and Qobuz?

@mswale 

You're absolutely right, but you're kinda missing the point too.

Most audiophiles have come around by now to the realization that TCP is indeed bit-perfect - period. The competent ones.

At issue is parasitic noise that travels via metallic cabling and can cause audible artifacts when picked up by poorly isolated and / or designed components. 

"Metallic" is the operating word here. As @yyzsantabarbara explains in his post above, just locate noisy network stuff in a separate room, plugged in a separate branch circuit, and run SFP cable (fiber) from that room to your system. The physical separation of those noisy components, combined with the inability of glass cabling to pick up or transmit EMI and RFI, ensures that the TCP data that reaches your streamer is not only bit-perfect but noise-free as well.

Or, you can spend thousands of dollars plugging your modem and router into twee little audiophile power supplies and network filters and connecting the whole kit with cryogenically treated silver CAT-6 cables, yet ultimately fail to reduce noise to the same extent as distance combined with fiber cable.

 

I’m just guessing here, but maybe the difference is in the equipment Qobuz uses before the tunes hit the interwebs.  Just like if you play a CD on your system and you swap a preamp, a DAC or amplifier it’s going to sound different.

Just a thought.

@curiousjim I’m just guessing here, but maybe the difference is in the equipment Qobuz uses before the tunes hit the interwebs. ..,

I did not post the results, but yesterday I did a deep search multi-layered query about the differences between Qobuz vs. Tidal vs. Amazon vs. Apple vs Spotify and the "differences in sound quality" and "why we can hear differences". 

What came back was more different about each than what I would have expected, starting with different mastering versions of music, and then differences between FLAC and other non-FLAC versions that get transmitted for starters, and what actually occurs between each of these service providers before packets get transmitted across an IP network to your home and streamers/dacs, next.  

Each of you can do your own queries and debate from there with yourselves one way or the other, but I walked away interpreting that all bits and are not the same, and each of these service providers are not the same in what you receive on the receiving end. Some of them are messing with it on their end, before transmission and will leave it at that.  Qobuz did get praised for being the must untouched FLAC files and untouched service though, and most here seem to already know this. It might be worth retesting 3-4 of them and validate what differences you can hear first hand. I can hear differences on my system, for the five I’ve tried. So, "Bits /= Bits" in this case on what was originated, sent, received for all of the service providers mentioned so far. Check again, listen again, and compare again fwiw.