Is ASR for real, or is it only for those sub $1k or even sub $2K?

If you want to see group level condescension, you shall go and read the vile degenerate threads at asr.

The condescension there is thick. Lots of smarmy mouthed jerks. I think measurements are cool and all but they’ve created a measurement cult*ure and it is extremely cliquish.

edit: I know that sounds harsh and I don’t mean to put down Amir or what he is doing especially when it exposes snake oil. It’s just the group condescension that I find offensive.

With that all being said, I quickly learned that all they do is just state (most specially their founder) that if measurements show that it has the lowest distortion (I am using amps as an example) then that is all that matters, it sounds the best!

I agree with what you said.  All they measured are steady state frequency response.  But music has a lot of transient time domain that is very hard to measure.  Doing steady state is a short cut.  I’ve read most of there measurement and I don’t think they understand time domain measurement.

Music has fundamental tone and over tone decaying - that is multiple of the fundamental.  These are very difficult to measure.

I like Erin’s Audio Corner for balanced assessment of measured data and listening experience.   

I like what Erin is doing and I learned a lot from his reviews.  At least he does both -listen and measure.  And I think he correlate the two fairly well.

I have five main questions/observations regarding ASR:

1.The level of connection between Topping (or other Chinese DAC brands) and the pattern of favorable mentions within the ASR framework. This includes questioning the review sample pathway (direct from manufacturer vs. forum users) and potential bias toward these specific brands beyond objective measurements, which I’ll elaborate on below.

2. Very small brands often lack the opportunity to respond before a review is posted to address variables outside their control, such as usage or shipping issues. ASR historically maintained this policy to ensure independence, but I question whether the same approach applies to brands that send samples directly. If poor measurements arise from a SMSL DAC, how could we ever know if there was any prior communication with SMSL before a review was posted (or not posted) beyond the self-reporting of the ASR’s founder?

3. A condescending tone toward hobbyists who don’t share measurement-centric views has become normalized and has spread beyond ASR to other forums. Examples include the Steve Hoffman Forum, r/audiophile on Reddit, and Audiogon threads where OPs ask for cable recommendations (to name a few). Statements by measurement-centric members often imply the OP is an “audiophool” for interpreting experiences differently, regardless of the nature of the inquiry.

4. Amir fits the definition of an influencer - and nothing more. This is not dismissive; it’s observable in the impact he has on the market, such as Schiit’s “Less is More” and “More is Less” Yggy offerings (which @deep333 mentioned), as well at Topping’s rise within the market. Given ASR’s popularity with younger hobbyists, I question whether clinically sterile-sounding equipment will become the future default in the measurement-driven movement ASR has helped establish.

5. +1 @oddiofyl Measure-centric members frequently use terms like confirmation bias and expectation bias, rarely addressing disconfirmation bias. These terms, originating in the soft sciences and later adopted by the hard sciences, are often applied one-sidedly to dismiss subjective perspectives. There are always two sides of the coin, but these are rarely discussed - presumably to strengthen one’s argument with the lease amount of effort.

Are we as subjectivists and centrist innocent in contributing to this divisiveness? Absolutely not.

And finally, I don’t think ASR members are a bunch of cheapskates. I also agree with toning down the personal attacks towards Amir, but I also believe in pushing back when a fellow member in our audio forum – in this case Amir - begins to display condescending behavior, which may be acceptable in his forum, but doesn’t have to be in ours. Influencers are nothing more than a data point, but I’m sure some will disagree (which is okay).

*AI used for editing and readability.

 in this case Amir - begins to display condescending behavior, which may be acceptable in his forum, but doesn’t have to be in ours.

Amir based on his name, he may be of middle eastern descended.  In that culture, people tend to be condescending when disagreed.

I certainly don't agree with Amir's point of view. Measurements are useful-designers use them-but are only part of the equation in my experience. I've also seen that lots of the ASR followers are snarky, or worse. Ridiculous. But, truth be told, you get an awful lot of that here over matters having nothing to do with Amir. Look at the insults hurled at people who buy or sell expensive equipment, or believe in the power of cables, or don't. Keyboard courage, I guess. Sure doesn't make the person launching those attacks look any smarter. The opposite is true.

I think Amir is wrong, but also think he's a smart guy. If we could have reasonable exchanges of differing views, everybody might learn something, but that seems to be very hard to do.