Songer Audio: Simple is Best!

Audionutjeff,

I've heard both Songers but I own the horn-based system I described above.  It sounds like you have owned some very nice speakers.  I am sure someone else might have settled on any one of the other systems you've owned, but I am not surprised at all that you went with the Songer. 

Like any of these somewhat efficient systems that deliver extreme dynamic contrast and a sense of quick transient response, the amp choice is VERY critical.  My own preference is very low powered tube amps.  These can be of any topology--singled ended triode, pushpull tetrode/pentode, or even output transformerless.  I currently run a pushpull pentode amp that puts out about 5 watts per channel (runs Western Electric 349 tubes) and I like the sound of this amp with speakers of sufficiently high efficiency.  I also own a parallel single ended 2a3 amp which is good, but not as good (to my personal taste) as the 349 amp. 

The very best amps I've ever heard were either a pushpull 252 amp or a custom made output transformerless amp.  The 252 amp was very lush, natural, and harmonically dense sounding, the OTL had explosive dynamics and a very clear sound while still being on the warm side.  Both are unobtainable amps that are well into six figures.

For more practical amp choices, you can look into 300B single ended triodes and perhaps even lower-powered single ended tube types.  Consult with Songer.  For pushpull amps, I tend to like amps running EL84, 6L6 and KT66 tubes more than I like KT88, KT120, KT150 (it seems to me that lower power output tubes sound better.  Even with these tube types, the more tubes that are used in parallel to get higher power output, the less I like the amp; the sound tends to becoming brittle to me.  I am not as much of a fan of solid state amps because they tend to sound lifeless and unengaging unless cranked up louder than I want to listen.  The better solid state amps for my taste are also lower in power.  I've heard two First Watt amps that sounded fairly good; the J-2 model I borrowed from a friend and ran in my system for two weeks, and the SIT-3 amp I heard in that friend's horn-based system.

Fyne is NOT a single driver in the same way as the Songer.  The driver is a concentric driver which means it is a two-way driver with a woofer and tweeter and crossover.  The tweeter is located in the center of the woofer.  The people who founded Fyne left Tannoy to start there own company making similar concentric driver systems.  I like Fyne speakers, but they do no sound anything like the Songer which is warmer and smoother sounding while remaining very alive sounding.  

Every speaker type and specific implementation of that type has its strengths and weaknesses.  The single drivers covering full-range do not go extremely deep and deliver the same kind of bass punch as conventional drivers.  To me, it is a tradeoff I can accept because these speakers deliver beautiful bass tone and an overall sound I like.  The very top end is often a bit ragged and unevenly dispersed, but, again, these issues are managed well by the better designs and are not that obtrusive to me and less important that what they do well.  I own horn-based systems that suffer from similar short-comings, but what they do well is far more important in my set of priorities.  I particularly like how horns and most other high efficiency systems deliver lively and engaging sound at modest (comfortable) volume levels.

@ronboco @larryi 

That’s correct Fyne Audio is a concentric driver, nor a single full-range driver.  They are excellent speakers, far better than their Tannoy legacies, IMHO.  TAD and KEF both make great coaxial driver speakers as well.  They share the point source benefits of a single-driver, but they still have crossovers that have a significant impact on the sound.  Similar but quite different.  
 

Larry made some great points about the top and bottom end limits of full-range single drivers, it is very difficult to get them to reach the frequency extremes.  This was quite evident with my Voxativ and Cube drivers, however both were augmented on the bottom with massive woofers.  It was even noticeable to a lesser extent on the original Songer S1.  The S1x upgrade made a substantial improvement, I no longer notice any issues at the extremes.
 

I initially struggled to get good bass out of my S1’s.  My old basement listening room was a bass nightmare.  A friend recommended trying them in the corners and the problem was solved, the bass was exceptional!  In my new, larger, finished attic listening room, the bass is excellent when I, once again, got the placement right.  I’m not saying that the bass is excellent “for a full-range single-driver speaker”, I’m saying it’s excellent, period!  The bass is both surprisingly powerful but also tonally excellent and very natural.  Credit the field coil magnets, the meticulously designed ported cabinets, and carful placement.  
 

Larry, I also agree with you on the high efficiency advantages of both horns and select full-rangers.  The ability to play effortlessly with minimal power and take advantage of SET tube amps is a major benefit of high efficiency speakers.  The only thing more surprising than the dynamics of the S1x Songers is that it’s coming from a 9 watt 300b amp!   The combination is magical!  

Have heard and enjoyed the Songers several times (and yes, Ken is a sweetheart).  Two other brands that attempt to address the frequency extreme issues pointed out by @larryi are Rethm, with powered bass reinforcement, and Treehaus, with a bi-amped woofer that they recommend be supplemented with a DSP module (since it’s an open baffle design), and a super tweeter.  I’ve heard both several times, and think they’re very good.

I also augment the bass on my Cubes, and whatever other speakers I'm using, with a pair of REL Carbon Special subs. Before that I used REL S/510's which were also excellent. I know some people shudder with the mention of subs but once I tried a pair of RELs I can't really go without. I barely have the subs turned up on the gain dial to probably around 20% and tend to cross them over around 50-60 hz. They really just add some punch and weight and depth. When I sold my S/510's, the guy who purchased them had eschewed subs forever. He had a pair of high end Gryphon standmount speakers that got great bass. When he hooked the subs up he wrote to me and said he couldn't believe how much better and deeper the sound was. I don't want to change the topic of the thread, but my point is don't be afraid of trying some subs with single drivers to help get the extension you want. That being said, I've listened to my Cube's without subs and the bass is excellent. It doesn't rattle the windows but it is full, detailed and fast. In the right room you probably wouldn't need a sub for 95% of music listening unless you really want to feel the bass.

As far as amps go, I've always heard that the Cubes prefer amps that have little to no feedback and have a low damping factor. I remember reading that's because the magnet structure of the driver is so strong and the driver is already "damped" or heavily controlled by the magnets. So an amp with a high damping factor can over control the drive and make it sound dry and dull. I've read reviews where the reviewers have preferred lower wattage, low damped amps vs higher powered amps. I've used probably 10+ amps with my Cubes and I have also found that to be true. I currently have 3 main amps I rotate: Line Magnetic LM845 Premium, LTA ZOTL40 Ref+, Coda S5.5. All sound different but excellent with the Cubes. I've even used a 1.5wpc 45 tube amp and they sounded excellent. I've used everything from GanFet class D, Class A, Class AB, tubes, 300b, 45, 845, EL34, KT88, etc... and all sound great. But I do generally recommend lower power, lower damped amps with little or no negative feedback.