Songer Audio: Simple is Best!

@ronboco @larryi 

That’s correct Fyne Audio is a concentric driver, nor a single full-range driver.  They are excellent speakers, far better than their Tannoy legacies, IMHO.  TAD and KEF both make great coaxial driver speakers as well.  They share the point source benefits of a single-driver, but they still have crossovers that have a significant impact on the sound.  Similar but quite different.  
 

Larry made some great points about the top and bottom end limits of full-range single drivers, it is very difficult to get them to reach the frequency extremes.  This was quite evident with my Voxativ and Cube drivers, however both were augmented on the bottom with massive woofers.  It was even noticeable to a lesser extent on the original Songer S1.  The S1x upgrade made a substantial improvement, I no longer notice any issues at the extremes.
 

I initially struggled to get good bass out of my S1’s.  My old basement listening room was a bass nightmare.  A friend recommended trying them in the corners and the problem was solved, the bass was exceptional!  In my new, larger, finished attic listening room, the bass is excellent when I, once again, got the placement right.  I’m not saying that the bass is excellent “for a full-range single-driver speaker”, I’m saying it’s excellent, period!  The bass is both surprisingly powerful but also tonally excellent and very natural.  Credit the field coil magnets, the meticulously designed ported cabinets, and carful placement.  
 

Larry, I also agree with you on the high efficiency advantages of both horns and select full-rangers.  The ability to play effortlessly with minimal power and take advantage of SET tube amps is a major benefit of high efficiency speakers.  The only thing more surprising than the dynamics of the S1x Songers is that it’s coming from a 9 watt 300b amp!   The combination is magical!  

Have heard and enjoyed the Songers several times (and yes, Ken is a sweetheart).  Two other brands that attempt to address the frequency extreme issues pointed out by @larryi are Rethm, with powered bass reinforcement, and Treehaus, with a bi-amped woofer that they recommend be supplemented with a DSP module (since it’s an open baffle design), and a super tweeter.  I’ve heard both several times, and think they’re very good.

I also augment the bass on my Cubes, and whatever other speakers I'm using, with a pair of REL Carbon Special subs. Before that I used REL S/510's which were also excellent. I know some people shudder with the mention of subs but once I tried a pair of RELs I can't really go without. I barely have the subs turned up on the gain dial to probably around 20% and tend to cross them over around 50-60 hz. They really just add some punch and weight and depth. When I sold my S/510's, the guy who purchased them had eschewed subs forever. He had a pair of high end Gryphon standmount speakers that got great bass. When he hooked the subs up he wrote to me and said he couldn't believe how much better and deeper the sound was. I don't want to change the topic of the thread, but my point is don't be afraid of trying some subs with single drivers to help get the extension you want. That being said, I've listened to my Cube's without subs and the bass is excellent. It doesn't rattle the windows but it is full, detailed and fast. In the right room you probably wouldn't need a sub for 95% of music listening unless you really want to feel the bass.

As far as amps go, I've always heard that the Cubes prefer amps that have little to no feedback and have a low damping factor. I remember reading that's because the magnet structure of the driver is so strong and the driver is already "damped" or heavily controlled by the magnets. So an amp with a high damping factor can over control the drive and make it sound dry and dull. I've read reviews where the reviewers have preferred lower wattage, low damped amps vs higher powered amps. I've used probably 10+ amps with my Cubes and I have also found that to be true. I currently have 3 main amps I rotate: Line Magnetic LM845 Premium, LTA ZOTL40 Ref+, Coda S5.5. All sound different but excellent with the Cubes. I've even used a 1.5wpc 45 tube amp and they sounded excellent. I've used everything from GanFet class D, Class A, Class AB, tubes, 300b, 45, 845, EL34, KT88, etc... and all sound great. But I do generally recommend lower power, lower damped amps with little or no negative feedback.

@abd1 

Great feedback!  I am so torn on doing subs.  I had a JL f113 and a pair of JL f112 v2 with the CR-1 crossover.  No matter what I did, I could not get them right!  The time alignment is always a challenge with subs!  I have heard such universal praise of the REL subs, I may reconsider them.

Great amp experience!  I’ve not tried an 845 tube amp with the Songers, but I’ve heard they’re great.  I have three friends with Coda amps and they rave about them.  The LTA amps are intriguing, I love the concept of that Berning OTL circuit.  I just was at an audio club friend’s house and he had the legendary Audio Note Onganku amp with 211 tubes.  His all Audio Note system was superb.  
 

Given your love of the Cubes, I see a pair of Songers in your future!  😉 

@mdalton 

I always enjoy my show demos with Rethm speakers.  Wonderful sounding speakers.  Treehaus speakers are terrific and the live edge hardwood baffles are stunning.  The DSP is a dealbreaker for me though.  Their electronics are works of art!