News help choosing a SACD Player / transport

@corente 

It is a Golden Atlantic

I could not find an exact matching model on Lampizator's website - I am trying to understand the architecture of Lampizator's dac(s).  Note that I am using dac lower case for the actual converter and DAC uppercase for the box that contains the dac(s), plus other functionality like filters and volume control.

This is to try to understand whether there is a dac that natively processes DSD bitstreams, or whether DSD is mathematically converted to PCM.  If so, what PCM bit-depth and sampling rate?

Note that DSD can be exactly converted to PCM, but the resulting PCM cannot be exactly converted back to the original DSD based on the PCM data alone.  In other words, you lose detail.  Is this audible?

For me, it is clearly audible, and here's my proof.  For a couple of decades, I have listened to SACDs played through very accurate Quad electrostatic speakers.  When my Marantz universal disc player became flaky, I replaced it with a Reavon universal disk player.  Initially I used both player's analogue outputs.  The Reavon is very similar to the now-discontinued Oppos, but uses Burr-Brown dacs instead of Sabre ESS dacs.

Every type of silver disk sounded superb, except for SACD DSD layers. I looked up the specification sheets on the Burr-Brown dacs - one is a two-channel dac which can handle 32-bit PCM, and the other is a multi-channel dac that can only handle 24-bit PCM. 

There was no mention of either dac handling native DSD!  I wrote to Reavon who confirmed that internally multi-channel DSD is down-converted to Redbook CD quality, ie 16-bits at 44,100 samples per second, though still multi-channel.

Then I wondered what they did with 2-channel DSD where they could use a 32-bit dac.  The answer was the same - DSD is internally down-converted to CD quality.

I knew there was something wrong within a minute or so of listening!  The 'air' around quiet piano notes was missing.

A soon as I reconfigured the Reavon to output DSD over HDMI, I got back the 'air' by using a Marantz pre which has an array of AKM dacs.  These do natively handle DSD.  Used as a transport, the Reavon is excellent but I wasted my money on its dacs!

I do not understand why the North American market makes such a dog's breakfast of SACD playback, and especially why the purpose-built HDMI is often missing from transports and DACs designed for North America.

In my experience, I have had no compatibility issues whatsoever sending SACD formats from universal transports over HDMI, whether the Redbook CD layer, 2-channel native DSD or multi-channel native DSD.  That includes from Sony transports a tenth the price of the Reavon.

To me, trying to squeeze DSD over other connection types designed for low bit rate 2-channel is performing an entirely unnatural act.

I think I've read 87% of the comments. But has anyone recommended the The GeerFab Audio D.BOB (Digital Breakout Box)? HDMI from transport/player to D.Bob. Then output from D.Bob (S/PDF Coax or Toslink Optical out) to most any DAC. The unit is around $500 when you can find them used. Do the elders of the forum believe this could work? Yes, I'm kind of asking for myself in addition to trying to help the OP. ✌🏼

While it is true that many SACDs are originally recorded using high resolution PCM, not all eschew DSD.  Editing is much harder in DSD, and adding effects really requires conversion, so pure DSD recordings tend to be of classical works, not pop/rock.

An alternative format for delivering high resolution PCM on silver disk is Pure Audio Blu-ray.  This is another reason for choosing a universal disc transport over a specialised player.

The Norwegian company 2l.no, probably the world leaders in immersive sound, often deliver packs containing both hybrid SACD and Blu-ray, sometimes including Dolby Atmos.  The differences between these and 2-channel stereo are astounding - you are not left wondering about some barely audible difference!

@old_ears 

"Assume yes...DSD over USB is DoP (DSD over PCM);  that is DSD 1 bit files embedded in PCM protocols (files)."

Yup, for me, sound wise, SACD .dsf files played in this way is the same as SACD hard drive.  Note: the DAC will show the file as DSD64.  However, when SACD .dsf files are actually converted to PCM, usually 24-bit, 88.2 kHz PCM file and the DAC shows the file as PCM, I feel like something is "lost in translation"...  lol. 

First, thank you all for your answers and suggestions.

Some of them request or need more information from my side, here it is:

My DAC: Lampizator Golden Atlantic: it is a previous version of the present Atlantic TRP, made with better components than its equivalent Atlantic. I love its sound and I think it does not convert DSD to PCM.

My DAC playing DSD files: I made several comparisons with files downloaded from Native DSD, and I prefer always the DSD file to the PCM file. It does not matter the recording was made in PCM or in DSD or in “Pure” DSD.

My small problem and why I have put this demand for help: my ripped SACDs (all of them old Classical recordings of great and big orchestras) sound worse when played with my system: server - Roon app - Lampizator DAC than when played with an Esoteric K-03XDse (owned by a friend) Besides, ripping the SACDs is a non easy task for me.

So for the time being and from the answers, I see three options:

1) Go with Esoteric PLAYERS, but price of the lowest one K-05xd is too high

2) Go with the Onyx Zenith XST20 TRANSPORT, whose specs say it delivers “DSD64 via DoP or D2P via Optical / Coaxial / BNC / AES” to any DAC: that would be my case as my DAC has not I2S input.

But I do not have any reference from this manufacturer owned by Shanling, and no dealer in my zone has this equipment.

3) Keep my system as it is … but all of you know that this is not a pleasant thing for any of us.

Any other idea or recommendation for my three options?