@audio-b-dog - I glance at this thread now and then. My take is that if I want spirituality, I'd go to some church, but I don't do spirituality or churches. I don't experience any art form for 'spirituality'. I like my arts, be they music, films, television, or books, visceral.... Different people get different things from the arts. 

"spiritual depth" is not a religious experience linked to a piece of religious music for me...

This is a common place Lapalissade association by superficial look...

 

"spiritual depth" in music is linked to the " felt change of consciousness" Owen Barfield  defined and associated with the way words/sounds/rythms are used in poetry...In the same way musicians can use music language of their culture and timbre mastery to create  real "spiritual experiences" not just "fun" or a designed orthodox religious celebration.

 

"visceral" on the other way refer back to the property of music to speak trough the "timbre experience" which is a universal experience lived trough our body sensation nevermind the differences of culture...

you read it here : 

 

Bodily maps of musical sensations across cultures

https://www.pnas.org/doi/10.1073/pnas.2308859121

 

Timbral effects on consonance disentangle psychoacoustic mechanisms and suggest perceptual origins for musical scales:

https://www.nature.com/articles/s41467-024-45812-z

 

The reason why this is such is explained by this acoustician in his book here an article : 

 

The Mechanical Invariance Factor in Musical Acoustics and Perception (Revisited)

https://sciencepublishinggroup.com/article/10.11648/10026300

 

 This article can help to understand all the others above : 

«Building on the current results, the researchers are now investigating how human hearing is more finely tuned toward natural sounds, and also studying the temporal factor in hearing.»

 

I insisted on "musical time" so much in this thread the reason is explained here in the  lastarticle under these lines and why musical time cannot be measured by linear clock...Furtwangler knew it in a way Toscanini did not...(Gergiev Russian maestro) 

Human hearing beats the Fourier uncertainty principle

https://phys.org/news/2013-02-human-fourier-uncertainty-principle.html

 

For sure we can as the ignorant crowd of consumers speak only about music "fun" visceral or not ...

But i am not member of this crowd...

The most powerful music must be visceral in his effect for sure but it is not enough to create "a felt change in consciousness"  the effect like Marian Anderson create singing anything,or in the didgeridoo experience, or with some talking Nigerian Yoruba drum experience or with a sarod master or with some Hildegard of Bingen etc  we must add "consciousness change" tools and means   to our visceral perceiving  metabolism . Music experience is precisely the indifferentied/differentiated action of meaning as sound  and sound as meaning through our body and mind as an internal pluralities  appearing as ONE gesture.

Then spiritual musical experience can be created by "love supreme" playing   which is not religious music at all ...

 

«Why do you like eating cadavers marinated in underwater for so long ? I cannot explain said the crocodile, it is "visceral" » Anonymus zoologist 

@mahgister 

I don't have time to read all the books you throw out. I'm writing and researching a novel. But inherent in what you say, it seems to me, that you believe that your experience of music is at a "higher" level than others. 

"For sure we can as the ignorant crowd of consumers speak only about music "fun" visceral or not ...But i am not member of this crowd..."

As an American poet, I was taught to come down to earth in my language and sentiment. And perhaps this is why we enjoy different things in music. I believe the highest sentiment can be found in a stone.

As a boy in high school we had a small record store with two listening booths. I would sit alone listening to classical music while a bunch of kids would sit in the other booth listening to pop tunes. As you can see, I set myself apart as an "intellectual" at a young age. 

When I arrived at college I met a very pretty girl who danced joyfully to the Beatles. I learned to like the Beatles and many other rock groups and began to eschew intellectualism. I still do, although I read books on archaeology and sociology and religion, always with a bit of skepticism.

This is to say, that I don't fear the thoughts of anyone. Einstein had to brew his tea and drink it himself. And I try to understand everyone. But no matter what logical distinctions I make, you always refer to your own taste as a "truth" of sorts. I want to embrace the taste of others. If I don't like what they suggest for me to listen to, then I won't. But I don't suggest that my understanding of music is superior to anyone else.

That being said, and I've probably pissed you off, in the latest Absolute Sound, there is a long writeup on Brazilian music and great recordings of Brazilian music. I know we share that love.

And here is my poem about a stone:

Composite Things

 

 

Suddenly you find yourself

for some unknown reason

staring at the ground

& there is only dirt.

 

You fall to your hands &

knees & start digging

fascinated by the bits of

rock & detritus

yesterday's litter

mixed with things from

the earliest beginnings.

 

Then you pick

up a rock to brush

it off, some common composite

thing, but the whirling

striations have caught your

eye so you fall into an

enchantment wondering how

all these bits of sparkle

swirling with white &

brown ever got

compressed into a package

so small

& how that has come into

your flesh-pink hand

at this very  moment

with the sky just as it

is overhead, tilted

slightly away.

 

Everything freezes together

& stops for that moment,

the universe itself

a composite stone

& you sparkling

deep in its center.

 

@mahgister 

I don’t have time to read all the books you throw out. I’m writing and researching a novel. But inherent in what you say, it seems to me, that you believe that your experience of music is at a "higher" level than others. 

I dont "trow out books" these are akll articles of science or acoustics linked to music...

 

I presume if you write a book you are not in the crowd and dont despise someone who think...

must i apologize to suffest content articles and reflections ? 

 

You make innuendos about my behaviour and posts suggesting  that my "taste rule" over everyone... This is "ad hominem" attacks...

I expressed in this thread and communicate links of music in all genres and styles from West or East or Africa, save commercial pop chart...

Instead of trying to understand my point you dismiss it by these  ad himinem attacks..

I am a "snob"  who impose his taste...

Are you serious ?