As always, Neil provides the definitive evaluation and comparison 😊 .
KLaudio or Degritter Mark II
Just curious to know if anyone out there has used both the KLaudio ultrasonic record cleaning machine and the Degritter Mark II (or the original Degritter) and which you thought achieved the best or better results.
I've got a lash-up ultrasonic cleaning system that I've put together which costs significantly less than the original Degritter. The end result I get with my lash-up system is, at least, as effective as the original Degritter but significantly more labor intensive. The Degritter is much more eloquent in this regard, which is its allure. I know the KLaudio is twice the price, but I'm much more interested in optimum results.
Thanks!
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- 45 posts total
@antinn You are indispensable! My last foray of record cleaning involved the use of LAST POWER RECORD CLEANER (used as directed) as a pre-cleaning step. Then, I used a Knosti Disco Anti-Stat filled with Mobile Fidelity Super Record Wash as another pre-cleaning step, rotating the records in the bath at least half a dozen times in both directions. The next step involved use of an RoHS Model 30A 180W ultrasonic power 200W cleaning power 40Khz 6L digital ultrasonic cleaner filled with distilled water and 15ml of Tergitol.15-S-9, set to 72 degrees Fahrenheit for 15-minute cleaning cycles. I ran the machine for 30 minutes at the same temperature, prior to cleaning records, thinking this would accomplish degassing. Then, I cleaned 3 records at a time in the ultrasonic using CleanerVinyl's record rotating motor set for .5 RPM, their old-style screw-on spacers that separates records by approximately 11/16", their record lifting & lowering device and their 6l one micron filtration device. The last step (excluding treating dry records with LAST RECORD PRESERVATIVE) involved another go-around in the same ultrasonic machine, filled with only distilled water (same degassing protocol) and set to the same temperature and cleaning/rinsing cycles. The results I obtained were at least as effective as a previous time when I used Mobile Fidelity's Super Record Wash for the ultrasonic cleaning fluid, no heat, and the same 15-minute cleaning cycles at 5 RPM rotation. In a direct comparison with the original Degitter, using only my ears for fidelity comparison, I found the Degritter did no better. The allure of machines like the Degritter, KLAudio and some others, from my perspective, is and has always been ease of operation, smaller footprint and, basically, eloquence. Be that as it may, I and many other audiophiles, I'm sure, continue to struggle with the thousands of dollars such eloquence affords. I'm wondering if the Elma Ultrasonic P60H, with its sweep frequency and 37 to 80 Khz settings might be a cost-effective alternative to consider. Thoughts, Sensei? As always, I cannot thank you enough for whatever time and attention you bring to this! |
I own a H Guru and have used the KL and the DeGritter ( version 1). The Guru, so long as one uses a surfactant (crucial), works well. The results from the KL, with a surfactant, were slightly better than the Guru and the DeGritter. The DeGritter offers a better build than the Guru, as does of course the KL. If build quality and ability to do multiple LP’s over time, ie for library work, then the order of preference is attached to the price asked. For the money, the Guru, for most folks, is an easy answer and the best option. IMO. |
First some observations on your current cleaning regime:
Now on to the Elamsonic P60, and I have worked with a number of people setting up their process.
This setup tima's DIY RCM | What's Best Audio and Video Forum. The Best High End Audio Forum on the planet! (whatsbestforum.com) uses two UT tanks using the P120 with the high-end filtration system addressed in the book with a 2nd cheaper 12L UT for rinse. Let me emphasize that the P-series are powerful units. One individual was running at 0.15-rpm and allowed the tank to reach 50C, and one record was damaged (a molted surface occurred - but played OK). Lesson learned - do not spin to slow and do not let the tank get to hot. Now for the extensional question - will the Elamasomic P60 yield a cleaner record than what you are getting now - it may. Depends on what you are cleaning. But if you are pre-cleaning before UT, you should be able to just use a no-rinse bath of Tergitol 15-S-9 at 0.004%. This is 0.24-ml per tank. This is 6-drops from a Nalgene Dropper Bottle Nalgene 2 oz. Leakproof Travel Dropper Bottle | The Container Store. The Nalgene Dropper Bottle delivers accurately 0.04-ml/drop - Factors to consider in accuracy and precision of Nalgene Dropper Bottles (thermofisher.com). For this no-rinse formula, 2% IPA can make a difference, but if using the bath for extended periods (weeks), you will need to periodically re-add Tergitol and IPA. As I always say, the devil is in the details, and the best cleaning process is the one that is best for you. Take care, Neil
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@antinn First and foremost, thanks so much for your kind attention to my record cleaning madness! Also, a correction of a typo I made: Rotation speed for my final ultrasonic rinse cycle(s) is/was 0.5 RPM; not 5 RPM. In answer to your questions/observations/constructive feedback: (1) I did, indeed, use 15ml of Tergitol. Using 0.9ml to achieve a 0.015% concentration seemed like so vanishingly little. I did not encounter any issues or problems with foaming. Also, I continue to struggle with the idea of possibly using a little alcohol in the cleaning process, either in the US cleaning cycle or the Knosti pre-cleaning step, because the records I've been cleaning (i.e. my core collection) are already very, very clean. (2) If I reduce my throughput, so to speak, to 2 records instead of 3, the records would be spaced by approximately 1.25". Would that make a huge or significant difference? Would 1 record at a time be better still? Also, what impact would this have on rotational speed? (3) Thanks! (4) That looks like the US machine I have except mine is a 6-liter capacity; not 6.5 liters. I set the heat to 26 Celsius. Toward the end of a 15-minute cleaning cycle the tank fluid sometimes reaches 30 Celsius. If it gets higher than that, I allow for extra cooling time. (5) Thanks! It appears this filter pump is doing its job because I'm starting to notice some discoloration (dirt) captured by the filter. I did not expect dramatic results in this regard because of how clean my core collection is. (6) Thanks! According to LAST's marketing/advertising, this solution or treatment is supposed to meld or bond on a molecular level with PVC, last for at least 200 plays or more, etc., etc., etc. As such, I assumed this would not amount to a film or residue, per se. However, now that I think of this a bit more, if this treatment has a life span of 200 plays or more, then I suppose it's reasonable to assume it is gradually etched off or eroded by the stylus and ultimately becomes a residue. This ushers in a whole new set of questions! Since I haven't played any records on my relatively new TT that haven't been ultrasonically cleaned, first, and treated with LAST, I would wonder if LAST actually does contribute to significantly less surface noise and at what cost of fidelity. |
- 45 posts total