AUDIO SCIENCE REVIEW and $50 to spend.........

Hi fsonicsmith1,

Just so you don’t get an incorrect impression: While I definitely side with ASR that, strictly speaking, the most reliable method of evaluating gear would include measurements and if possible blind testing, in the real world that’s often not possible or practical so we all make our decisions on how to evaluate gear.

Yes many ASR members are very measurement oriented (which is perfectly fine in my book), but there’s also members who enjoy a range of equipment, lots of it not on the "ASR approved" list.

I’ve spent lots of time defending my use of tube amps, vinyl (to those who don’t see the point, some ASR members do understand the point) and even liking speakers that don’t measure great re the Harman curve And I’ve been a thorn in the side very often defending the worth of subjective reviews.

And, yes, there IS a certain strain of thinking on ASR that, if it were widely adopted would, in principle, rule out a huge variety of speakers that are currently available and the many speaker designs people have loved over the years, that don’t meet ASR-like standards. I’ve made threads on the topic there, and it is a type of philosophical difference I hold vs many on that forum. My personal preference is that there continue to be a wide variety of speaker designs that don’t have to meet a certain "best practices" dictum or house curve, so people who want those speakers can be catered to. I’ve often used my enjoyment of Devore speakers as an example. I’m glad as heck such designs exist, where they don’t get a second glance by many at ASR.

I’ve never tried to beat anyone up over the method they want to use for evaluating gear. But when we are trying to get at some truth of any matter - and audiophiles are making truth claims all the time - then we can have a discussion with varying viewpoints IMO.

As to cables: I always try to be careful not to make some broad claim based on my personal experience. So for instance I blind tested Shunyata cables against off the shelf cheap AC cables. Thought I heard a difference sighted listening. Couldn’t tell them apart under blinded conditions. Do I therefore say "my own blind test proves AC cables don’t make any sonic difference?" Of course not. No person familiar with the scientific method should make that mistake. Rather, it’s useful for my own purposes, and if someone else cares to use my report as a data point in their own

view, that’s up to them.

Likewise regarding any cables. I don’t propose that not hearing cable differences in my system, or anywhere else, means "no cables make sonic differences." I AM however, I think, rightly skeptical based on the nature of claims made about cables - many of which people knowledgeable in electronics theory point out as highly suspicious - and the nature of how those claims generally are made (audiophiles claiming to hear differences, when I know both from science, and from personal experience, how our perception can be fooled). So I wait for stronger evidence.

Note though, that if many here think that they are seeing an "objectivist" suggest from their blind test that cables don't make a sonic difference, they will leap on the objectivist for illegitimately drawing such general conclusions from their experience.

And yet all the time we see people here saying "Cables make a difference! I know that because I've done the tests in my own system!"  But these generalizations are immediately glossed over because, well, that's the going bias in forums like this.

Finally, my anecdote about my recent cable swap is only one of many. I’ve had many audiophile friends, including many in the industry, and so over the years I’ve been able to play with lots of different cables. I’ve even heard speakers I own with over $50,000 worth of Nordost and Crystal cable (and others). So, even for my own purposes, I’m not just basing my lack of being impressed on a one-off with those recent interconnects.

If someone else feels expensive cables are worth their money...enjoy.

Cheers.

You're a good guy Prof. I by the way have no conviction that my view is correct. It is only a viewpoint. I actually no longer believe that tube amps are superior to solid state, only different. I also have come to believe that vinyl is objectively 
AND subjectively inferior to digital in MY system. As to cables, I wish you could hear the impact that different S/PDIF cables between my Aurender W20 and SW1X DAC III B have on the sound. The differences are stark. Not quite as obvious but close is the difference in sound quality between various XLR cables between my ARC Ref 6 and two true-balanced ARC amps, a Ref 150 SE and Ref 80S. 

Something you mention that is a conceptual non-starter for me is blind testing. As subjective as this hobby is, there is no escaping human behavior and human limitations. Listening impressions take time. Time is anathema to blind testing. We humans can remember a particular feeling or impression but it is not reliably repeatable. With the benefit of time we can gain an average perception and that is all. This is the other side of the coin for so-called blind testing. "Sure you don't appreciate a difference-you did not have enough time to perceive it". 

It is certainly ironic that certain cable manufacturers insist on doing ABX testing to prove their wares. More times than not the "test" is rigged. 

I find many of the ASR measurements interesting and useful to a point.  In no way do measurements tell the entire story.  Amir has documented his personal system audio costing in the 6 figure ball park. He and the faithful followers regularly berate anyone spending anywhere near that level as an audiophool taken in by snake oil.  

A very recent review of an active speaker ($10K per pair) heaped glowing praise.  Amir drove a single sample to ear splitting levels and found no problems.  Almost all the measurements were quite good.  However, the waterfall graph showed numerous resonances, yet Amir loved the sound quality.  So, were the resonances not audible or did they contribute to a sound quality Amir liked?

I find it remarkable that some posters are incapable of taking @prof  seriously. His views are well-founded, typically well articulated, and as balanced as anyone's could be, especially on contentious topics. He also has relevant professional experience. 

Feel free to argue the substance of his posts, but ad hominem attacks reveal much more about the poster, than the intended target.

@whipsaw 

Much appreciated.

Unfortunately this is a type of discussion, like abortion, religion, politics, where many have dug their heals in and are easily triggered by an opposing view.  The reaction is to get emotional and defensive and ad hominem sometimes, rather than just address the arguments.