2. amps-preamps
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Preamp comparison - Rogue Perseus and ARC LS25 MKII

I was fortunate to pick up a LS25 a couple of weeks ago and have been giving it a thorough listen.  Really nice preamp, my first ARC piece of gear.  It's been fun switching between it and my trusty Rogue Perseus.  Probably not a fair comparison with the LS25 over 3k more when new.  But it is what it is.  Using my Rogue Atlas Magnum tube amp and Snell type D speakers.  

Right out of the box I could tell the difference.  The LS25 is just a little more refined, the word polite coming to mind.  The Perseus gives music a bit of bite and texture, an added fullness and bass presence also. The soundstage is just a touch more open as well.  The LS25 has a slight edge in clarity, with more attack. 

I've always read that ARC tube gear is considered to be not quite as 'tubey' as most.  I think I now know what that means.

Now trying to decide which to keep.  I will do more listening to be sure but I am leaning towards sticking with the Rogue and passing along the LS25.  You all might think I am nuts (most likely I am) but I do enjoy the richer and fuller presentation of the Perseus.   

A question for those with ARC experience:  might tube rolling in the LS25 add a bit more of what I am looking for? 

Ideally, I would like to find a tube pre that combines the attributes of both - clarity with great texture and fullness and an open soundstage.  Any suggestions for tube pres that might fit this description are welcomed.

Thanks!

pkatsuleas
mulveling's avatar
mulveling
1,774 posts
 

You don't see the Athena or Hera for sale often.  If I did I might grab one.  I have been very curious about the RP series.  There was one local that I almost bought but snoozed on it.  But, it sounds like you are saying that the newer Rogue pres don't have that full bodied, warm sweater sound.  I like full bodied for sure.  A touch more detail would be appreciated.  I think I am going to try some new tubes.

Thanks

Yes, I am saying exactly that :)

I had a RP9 and it was more detailed than even the Athena & Hera, so I'll give it credit for that. 

The 12AU7 in the Perseus has a lot of options for rolling, and should have a big impact on sound. I'm not a big fan of 12AU7's in general so don't have as much experience rolling there as with 12AX7. But there should be parallels, and in that case the ribbed-plate Telefunkens or silver plates Cifte/Mazda are top recommendations for detail, clarity, dynamics. For a cheaper and easier to find tube on the "detailed, clean" side, the Sylvania 6189 and Philips ECG 6189 are quite good. And from modern Russian production, their Tung-Sol small tubes are a great choice in this vein of sonic character.

mulveling's avatar
mulveling
1,774 posts
 

Also - I’ve used sets of both EH Gold and Sovtek 6H30 in both the ARC Ref 6 preamp and the Rogue Athena and Hera, going back several years. Not a lot of difference in these tubes, either way. The EH Golds are maaaaaybe a hair warmer. Like 1 - 2% max. Not enough to change your opinion of a preamp. The gold pins are sometimes a bit thicker and grip better in a loose socket, so there’s that. Never noticed much effect from cryo treatments, either. You don’t need to stress about tube-rolling in 6H30 based preamps, unless you want to try the 1970s/80s "DR" supertubes - and good luck finding matched sets of that 😶

Upscale Audio’s Platinum grade matched sets of either Sovteks or EH has always been good enough for me. I have an Athena here and honestly forget which tubes are in it - maybe I'll take a peek now lol. 

audphile1's avatar
audphile1
4,169 posts
 

Agree with @mulveling the EH gold are slightly warmer. But the key here is to get a fresh set of tubes and eliminate the possibility of old worn out tubes impacting the comparison. 
Also don’t forget what I mentioned earlier - give each preamp a few days of critical listening, let it sink in. Sometimes the changes aren’t appreciated with a quick A/B. 

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