Well it finally happened, one of my (four) EL34 tubes in my Willsenton R8 blew up last night. I knew it was coming. The bias meter had been telling me for about three weeks that this particular tube was loosing its mojo. Before you ask, yes I kept adjusting it's bias to match the others, it just wouldn't stay there for long.
Based on curiosity I just purchased (4) EL34 cryogenic tubes. They should be here by Friday.
I'm curious what folks (with actual direct experience, not your usual "everything new is snake oil" folks) think of cryogenic tubes in their systems?
The benefits listed are:
Expanded dynamic range
Smoother and more refined high frequencies
Increased Bass depth, definition, and articulation
Deeper and more focused soundstage
Lower dynamic noise floor
Reduced micro phonics
Smoother midrange
Lower operating temperature and extended tube life
Thanks for your feedback (pun intended) and Happy Listening .
@tomcy6 Prior to posting I ran a search on the discussion board. Most of the comments were quite old. I was hoping to garner more up to date info. That said, there were a few interesting questions/comments I ran across and I've forwarded these to the manufacturer (CryoTone).
@curiousjim Your question (how can Cryo make a tube run cooler??) is a good one. I've included it with the one below.
"Since tubes are composed of various materials, all of which expand and contract at different rates, one might think that cryo-treating tubes may cause micro cracks, fissures, or gaps where two or more materials meet, causing deleterious effects on the sound and possibly the longevity of the tubes. How does your process address these effects?"
"Since tubes are composed of various materials, all of which expand and contract at different rates, one might think that cryo-treating tubes may cause micro cracks, fissures, or gaps where two or more materials meet, causing deleterious effects on the sound and possibly the longevity of the tubes. How does your process address these effects?"
@69zoso69 I bet they’re going to say they control this by cooling VERY GRADUALLY, and SLOWLY over time (several days?), and that their totally proprietary, patent-pending (lol) process is better than any competitors because <fill in the blank, but expect some aerospace credentials to be flashed>.
That said, I agree it’s a very good question, and no amount of "we just do it really slowly" is going to 100% assuage all doubts. The reality is they’ll probably test & match again AFTER the cryo process, which will screen out tubes that might have been negatively affected by the process.
Anyways, just to reiterate I made my own determination over many years' of tube purchases, and I no longer seek to purchase cryo-treated tubes.
Years ago, after contacting and then receiving the reply below from 2 NASA scientists I decided to send my endpins for cello off to be cryo,'d. At first, I sent only the removable coupling tip from the rods. After treatment these tips were sent to members of the Cincinnati Orchestra for comparison and confirmation as they had purchased endpins from me a couple months prior that were untreated. They tried them and one member stated that whatever you just did please continue. The result was better sound with easier and faster string play. After that I send all elements and contents of the endpin to the lab to be treated. Some parts as small as 0.011 in diameter.
This is an e-mail I received in response to questions I had after much heated discussion to the benefits and effects of cryogenic treatment here on Audiogon, this was in 2002.My inquiry was originally to a Dr. Louis Salerno at NASA. As I found out later Dr.Barron who most graciously sent this reply and is considered the leading authority on cryogenics in the United States. Tom
Dear Mr. DeVuono:
November 23,2002
In your e-mail to Dr. Salerno (which was forwarded to the Cryogenic
Society of America office), you had asked about the effect of cryogenic
treatment on electrical conductors, such as copper, silver, and gold.
In general, the cryogenic treatment has a permanent effect (there is
no change in the wear properties with time), unless the part is heated up
into the annealing temperature range for the material. Properly heat
treated materials will maintain the effect of cryogenic treatment until the
material is heated into the annealing temperature range. The cryogenic
treatment produces a change throughout the bulk of the material, and not
just at the surface, also.
We have conducted experimental tests on lathe tool materials
(generally, high-alloy steels), in which we conducted wear tests for
samples subjected to various "on-the-shelf times" ranging from one day to
60 days, and we found no statistically significant change in the material
wear properties.
I trust this information will be of help.
Sincerely yours,
Randall F. Barron,PH.D
Professor Emeritus
Mechanical Engineering
Louisiana Tech University
Ruston, Louisiana U.S.A.
Jump ahead today.
Today I received a box of materials back from the cryo lab and when I spoke to David about the treatment of tubes, he offered up that it takes nearly 12 hours longer to safely treat the tubes than other materials. If you don't follow a careful sequence of temperature control moving slowly down and then backup, they can fracture.
David said he treated a tube belonging to a singer songwriter who lived nearby. This tube was from the musicians' microphone used in his home recording studio,
demos he makes which are then sent to LA for editing. The engineers at the studio said they heard a noticeable improvement in fidelity in the recordings sent after the cryogenic treatment. The musician songwriter co-wrote 5 songs for the movie Top Gun. Tom
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