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Is a separate phono pre really necessary?

I have an upgraded Rega P3 that is now essentially a P6 (groove tracer subplatter and counter weight, Rega Neo ps) that has a Soundsmith Zephyr MIMC star mounted on it. It is then connected to a Park Audio Budgie Ten SUT and then to a Rogue Audio RP-5 preamp.

This question is about the phono stage in the RP-5. Would upgrading to a separate phone preamp of around $1,000 to $2,000 be a worthwhile upgrade from the internal phone preamp in the RP-5? And if so which phone pre do you guys recommend (notwithstanding all the caveats about subjectivity). I'm thinking of the soundsmith mcp-2, PS audio stellar phono, parasound jc3 jr., maybe a Manley Chinook if I can find a good deal.

The wrinkle is the loading requirements for the zephyr mimic star: >= 470 ohms. This makes a lot of phone preamps really not suitable for this cartridge (hence premaps with adjustable loading via a pot) because of the static loading options are mostly well below 470 ohms on most phono preamps

smanuel
smanuel OP
7 posts
 

@viridian Yeah, you’re probably correct; Dr. Feickert, Linn, SOTA, P8/P10 are all on my wish list. However my current budget precludes a such an upgrade at the moment. But that is why I’m asking about a separate phono stage.

@elliottbnewcombjr Do I like my MM phono stage sound? Not sure. Both sound fine but a bit flat to my ears. Like that AS review you quoted, I’m using the highest gain setting and that could be the issue. Or it could be that I’m running the signal through a SUT and this is loading the cart at the minimum impedance setting. But either way I feel that a separate phono stage might be beneficial. And the extra gain would be welcome as well.

@audphile1 @aj523 @sokogear Thanks for your impressions of Sutherland gear. I’m getting the sense that Sutherland equipment is really good for the price.

@jfuquay "Pleasant"-- that is *exactly* what the RP-5 phono stage sounds/feels to me. It really doesn’t wow me much. And considering I have a pretty damn good cart I feel this might be a limiting part of my system.

aj523
385 posts
 

@smanuel 

Np. And in terms of customer service, the founder /owner Logan Sutherland (former co-founder of Martin Logan) is always only a cell phone call away which is a nice thing.

coltrane1's avatar
coltrane1
884 posts
 

Depends on your gear. I had a SS phono stage in a Carver Ultimate receiver that sold for $5k that sounded pretty good! My PS Audio phono pre was a bit better but not that much better. To spend $2k for a separate phono pre I’d say only if your budget will allow it.

elliottbnewcombjr
7,741 posts
 

any phono eq that takes low output mc, you are running thru it's internal SUT anyway. 

my SUT has 3 tonearm inputs, PASS for MM, and 4 optional transformer windings: 4 optional x factors and the 'resultant' impedance (determined by x factor squared) that will be 'shown' to a MM phono input.

Fidelity Research FR-4

https://www.vinylengine.com/library/fidelity-research/frt-4.shtml

I go to my beloved Tube Phono MM input. in my mx110z.

 

You might consider a tube preamp for everything, including at least MM Phono. then use an external SUT, or a Tube Phono EQ for both MC and MM with many configurations to Line Level in your amp.

ANYTHING involving Phono, have return option, it's tricky what works for you.

kellyp's avatar
kellyp
104 posts
 

Well I ask, do you like  integrated amps or separate?  One power amp, biamp or triamp.  One driver or three. You get the idea

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