Maggie 1.7i's lack detail. Ideas?


Hi,
In about 1979 I had a roommate who had a pair of Magnapan's, an amp, pre-amp (at least one of which was NAD, and a fairly high quality turntable.  I was shocked and amazed about the feeling the singers were present in the room with me.   The accuracy and detail of the sound.

Fast forward 40 years and I purchase a barely used 1.7is.   I have a new Marantz NR1200.  A 15 yo BK EX-440 Sonata (350WPC @ 4 ohms), and optical bit stream out Sony DVD player.  I use optical cable between the DVD player and NR1200.   I have fairly high quality cables between the pre-out of the NR1200 and the EX-440.  I have somewhat high gauge copper stranded cable, about 6', between the EX-440 and the speakers.

The sound is not bad but very much lacking the detail and immediacy I remember in the highs and mid-range.  A great disappointment. My question is what the most likely culprit?

Some possibilities:
1. My hearing has declined.
2. I've a romanticized memory of the sound quality.
3. What I was hearing was the mushrooms.
4. The speakers my roommate had were a bit wider.  Maybe more like the 3.7s.  Maybe 40 year old 3.7s are just that much better than current 1.7is.
5. Stranded wire cables.
6. Turntable that much better than CD.
7. ????
 

jros

@jros , probably a combination of all those factors especially the mushrooms.

The speakers should be three feet off the wall and the wall behind them needs to be completely deadened. I would use acoustic tile. 

Maggies do best with powerful class A amps. 200 watts/ channel RMS into 4 ohms is the real minimum. The 3.7i's are a much better speaker and one of the best values in a high performance speaker out there. For the best bass below 100 Hz you still need a subwoofer but otherwise they are brilliant. It is the real ribbon tweeter that makes the difference. It is arguably the best tweeter made.  It you want detail almost at the level of and ESL the 3.7i is the way to go.

I have a B&K EX-442 Sonata (it's "442", not "440", btw) running from a Parasound P5 preamp into a pair of Maggie MMGs (precursor to the LRS).  My system sounds outstanding (I run CDs through either a Denon DVD-2900 or OPPO BDP-95) both connected via RCAs.

I can tell you that as long as the 442 is functioning as it should, your issue is not with it (or likely with the Maggies either, for that matter).  While more is better, that amp should have plenty of good, clean power and high current for those speakers, IMO.

The first thing you should do is upgrade the fuse and jumper with a silver fuse and jumper. I did this to my 1.7i's and it made a very noticeable difference. And it will cost you less than $100. Start there. 

OP, by your description of how you came to purchase the gear, I am going to assume you are somewhat new to the pursuit of higher end audio.

While there may be some merit to the cable suggestions, I would suggest you put that aside from a budgetary perspective for a minute. These suggestions are from the tweakers that already have their base gear well determined and are seeking small incremental improvements as diminishing returns. Fuses are controversial but in any case when you have an AVR as a preamp you are far from the diminishing returns these types of things MAY offer.

Gear is not just about what inputs and outputs they offer. Your AVR receiver has pre-outs for convenience. The preamp on your AVR is geared to mate with the amp section and not necessarily to mate well with any external amp. And no AVR in that price range is engineered to optimize audio for music, and there may well be additional digital processing going on affecting the purity of the music signal.

Similarly, your source is intended primarily for movies. It’s not going to give you the musical nirvana that you mention.

Finally, Maggies will sing with the right power. But hold off on replacing the B&K until you get the upstream components right.

Bottom line, you do need a proper preamp, albeit you might find something quite affordable ($300-$500) either used or in something like the Schiit line of products, and you need a proper source, which in this day and age I would recommend be a DAC and then a source like a streamer or computer that can pick up Tidal or Qobuz as well.

When you get the source to preamp combo right, only then are you in a position to judge the B&K to Maggie combo. 1.7is should sound quite liquid, detailed and nice. If you are still not getting that sound then it could be the amp. I do also believe in room treatments, which can be an expensive rabbit hole but there’s usually some low hanging fruit - just start with speaker placement and toe-in angle. Some people reverse their maggies from right to left or front to back as well.

Welcome to the journey my friend. But part of what you need to learn is when to realize someone is suggesting fifth order tweaks that may have merit only when you have addressed several levels of the basics. Don’t worry about $200 fuses or $500 power cables or speaker cables. There’s much lower hanging fruit for your improvement at this point.

hartf36: my bad.  It is a B&K EX442 Sonata (not 440).   Thanks for the specific experience with the amp speaker combo.

thanks for the perspective jji666.  I was hoping for a cheap fix :-(

Thanks to everyone for all of the input. 

i hate to do it but I think the Marantz NR1200 has to go.   I really like that it accepts all of the inputs I need.   I also liked the price tag.  But I am going to bite the bullet and get a better DAC and preamp because my disappointment is killing me.