Helping a friend build a new system

I’m a Vandersteen fan, and think the VLR would be a better choice room-wise. The 1Ci should be pulled out at least 3 feet into the room to sound great. The VLR or used Treos could be placed 1 foot from the front wall (your friend’s requirement) without compromising the soundstage and imaging to a significant degree. Given the small size of the room, I think the 60 watts of the VTL-IT85 should be more than adequate to drive them to decent SPLs. I love my VLR CTs for my den/library system. They are nearly double the price of the VLR Wood (up-charge for the carbon tweeter).

You guys are awesome! 

BTW, he bought a used VTL I-85 model (newer version) at a very reasonable price, so we still have about $3-4K left for speakers and stands. We have added Vandersteen to the list, although I have no idea what the sound characteristics are like and how it compares to Harbeth or Fritz.

Another speaker company which I'm surprised no one mentioned is Proac. I heard one of their standmounts (I believe it was Response D2) a few years ago, but found it to be a bit forward and energetic for my taste. But this doesn't necessarily mean my friend will not like them either. I'd love to hear from someone who has compared Proacs and Harbeths, or Fritz for that matter.

@tomic601 -- After hearing about poor customer service and potentially short tube life of VTL, I was feeling guilty for leading my friend down the wrong path. It's good to hear your brother-in-law is having some success with it. If you have heard it yourself, do you mind sharing your thoughts regarding sound quality? Is it really more SS-like and lacking low end grunt as a few have mentioned earlier?

@arafiq

as you know, the key in system building is understanding the nature of the specific components and then gathering pieces that synergize - this is perhaps the most true in matching speakers with amps

yes proacs and speakers of its ilk can be bright and forward, if used with the wrong amps - so one needs to know how specific speaker lines are/were developed... i have been a proac fan since the 90’s when they burst onto the scene (just love them, still have 4 pairs)... stewart tyler (r.i.p) voiced all response series proacs with audio research tube amps (v70 vt50 vt100 series in the day), so that is what they absolutely shine with, and driven by good tube amps like those they have no harshness or forwardness, just oh so sweet music, oh so real and tactile vocals, excellent full range response huge precise image ... i would venture to say that fritz speakers (i have a pair of carrera be’s) with be tweeters are much the same

(incidentally focals, magico etc in the modern day have also gone with such highly resolving tweeters but they then build the rest of the speaker wrong for tube amps, with 4 ohm or lower impedance, so those speakers are no-win situations with most tube amps, and then, with all but the very expensive, very best solid state amps they are too forward tonally, and soundstage is flat)

conversely, as you also know, harbeth/a shaw voices his speakers with big hegels, so c7’s p3’s super 5’s are best off with similar, ultra smooth high grade solid state, as they have the subtle treble sparkle, bass driver control and current delivery ability that the harbeths with radials are best with

i have never have had little stand mount vandy’s but traditionally, floor standing vandy’s need power, plenty of it, unless you go for the very top ones with built-in self driven woofer/subwoofer sections

hope this helps

Yes brother in law has the newer version, coming off Odyssey Khatargo SS amp and Candela pre. He as i suspect bought a low hour trade for half of retail. My sense is they sink to about that level and flatline, if it does not impress it, flip.

I probably have 20 hours listening to it on Vandersteen 1ci ( in a 10 x 10’ phone booth and now special 40 w single REL in a much larger space… I think Treo is his next stop but who knows ? 

in his system; MoFi Untradeck, Ortofon Bronze, Nova III phono, PS Audio Dac, Dynaudio…it leans slightly romantic but not sterile or tuby. My only beef w Integrated is the steps on remote volume are big.

a good dealer to chat w is John Rutan at Audio connection in NJ, he has  Vandy and ProAc.

@jjss49 -- well said, and I agree with everything you've said. It has been a few years since I listened to the Proacs Response D2s at a dealer. I remember that they were driven by Audio Research separates but can't recall the exact model. I still found them too forward for my taste. That same day I also listened to Sonus Faber Olympica 1 with the same equipment and fell in love with the sound. What I've learned though is that sometimes you just don't know until you bring the speakers home. One of these days, I am going to buy a used pair of Proac Response to compare with my Harbeth 30.1s in the home office. It's just that the 30.1s do so many things right that I just can't bring myself to sell them to try out something else. But you never know. I might snap up a pair of used Proac Response D2 or Fritz Carrera BE if they every show up in the used market.

You are absolutely right about synergy. Last summer when I was auditioning speakers for the main system, I listened to a pair of Proac D48Rs at a local seller's house. He was driving them with some PS Audio equipment. I had never heard such lackluster sound coming from such imposing speakers. It was obviously not my place but I wish I could have told him to try them with some decent tube amplification.