Critical oppositions made using inadequate equipment.


Is it really possible to critically estimate tt or cartridge characteristics using for example cheap monitor speakers or other weak component in the system ?
surfmuz
@mijostyn
We all have our own ideas of what is best.
I’m totally agree on this one. No dogma exists in our hobby. At some point you just start to understand that you ready for your own concepts and whoever suggesting to you or gives you some strong opinions are  basing on their own, probably weak experience and maybe even wrong understanding. 
"Maybe even wrong understanding."   The biggest  issue I see with the out spoken people is there lack of experience  with live real music.  They always fall back on detail and pump up highs.  They use the terms  air around instrument , black background,  neutral,   sound stage,  etc etc ...  In all the posts did anyone ask you what your goal is.  What are you looking for.  What is your  musical  background.?  What music do you listen to?  Etc Etc ...  

Is the tone, body, timbre, pitch of acoustical  instruments important  to you?  Is the attack and decay of interest.  How loud and what size room do want to fill with music.  Do you want to feel like  you are at a rock concert,  classical  auditorium,   Or a  small jazz club with out big ass studio monitors  to mess things up.    

In regards to real music the mid range is where at least 80% of the action is.  Studio monitors  can be the best here.  Rodgers and Spendor 3/5  monitors  are superb.   Of course Quads and some planar are great mid range speakers also.  

So to your original question,  it would be hard to answer not knowing what you like and want from music.  If detail is your thing  there is plenty  of solid state amps and speakers to let you hear changes in carts and table arm combos.  If going for the Holy Gail  of real Live music , where vinyl  is King ,  things get more complicated.   Here I would go down the tube stuff ave which would cost more but really sounds like the real deal.  The hardest  part is knowing the weak component is with out knowing your goals.  If you are truthly looking for a answer  for your journey  then I would define your goals  then get the speakers  to get you close , then amps that can make them sing.  Then fine tune them with table/arm/ cartridge. 

Enjoy the ride
Tom





One audio guru, Nelson Pass of Threshold and Pass Labs fame, uses what most of us would deem to be really substandard speakers to test his changes.that his best sounding speakers do not. Even my current telvision speakers, B&W DM 14's I bought new in 1981 show differences between some excellent tuners I have tried (Kenwood KT-917, Sansui TU-707/717, and B&K TS-108), as well as differences between very good phono cartridges.  The limiationts of these speakers is shown when trying to tell the substantial difference between an Audire Diffet 2 or 3 pre-amp, but I doubt Nelson has that problem.  Also, many mobile van mixers used little Rogers LS series speakers for setting controls when recording.  These use the same Celestion mid-tweets and Coles Super tweeter as the KEF that B&W co-opted to improve the KEF crossovers, which they replaced  to make B&W's first speakers  teh early DM models.  These used not only the aforementioned drivers, but even the KEF, wide cabinet British tax evading, ovalish woofer.  So! I say YES! 
@tomwh, your first two paragraphs are very true. A great system has to be able to mimic all these genres and venues with authority. But I respectfully disagree on the overriding importance of the midrange. If you want the live experience the entire audio band from 18 Hz to 16 kHz is important. Certainly, if you have to settle for a limited system the last thing you can compromise is the midrange. But, for the live experience it all has to be there especially the bass. 

Quads were special because they were the first speaker that gave us a hint of what was possible. But, they then developed the speaker in the wrong direction trying to improve it's performance as a point source speaker instead of evolving towards a full range line source. The Europeans are more concerned about size than Americans as many more of them live in places with limited space. 
So we are back to  what do you want from your  music.  There is no one size fits all speaker.  If I wanted  to light up a big room with  rock and roll,  quads and book shelf  speakers are not where  I would start.  

You sound like bass is a big  deal for you.  Here is a test for you.  Go to what ever venue  you hear the big bass you like.  Then close your eyes listen to just the bass.  It just might change  mind about how tight it really is.  If  classical is your thing  what instrument  can  create loud tight bass?

Of course if real is not your thing then create the system  that  makes you happy.  

Enjoy the ride
Tom