The Miller Carbon Story

The first arm used on the Miller Carbon was the Graham 2.0, with a Benz Micro Glider. Then the Graham was upgraded to 2.2 with the new more massive knob that holds the point the arm pivots on. There was also a different weight silicone fluid as I recall.   

This was a fairly minor upgrade, not really worth the money frankly, although maybe so because back then it was still pretty exciting to hear such simple things make any difference at all. So, more learning: Even something as seemingly minor as the viscosity of a few drops of silicone does make a difference you can hear.  

This also was a change to the arm itself. Lots of people ask what does what, how much does it matter, and so on. Well, we learn by doing.  

Eventually the Glider was replaced with Benz Ruby. A clear case of the same only better. Which was exactly what was wanted. Wasn't looking to change. Just looking for more of the same, only better. 

The same Graham arm had now been used on two different turntables, Basis and Teres, or more if counting by the mods made to the tables while the arm remained the same. But those two tables anyway.  

The Graham requires an interconnect. Experience with this led to questioning the wisdom of all those extra connections. The Graham had cartridge pins, wand contacts, DIN connector, RCA to phono stage. Each one of those connections is also a solder joint. So add them all up: 11 connections! Compared to only 4 or 5 if the arm is hard wired.  

Cartridge output is exceedingly faint and fragile. All these connections cannot possibly be good. Yeah sure Ted Denney had made me some custom phono interconnects and they were mighty fine. But, still....  

So we wound up with the next big upgrade, the arm that is on there now, the Origin Live Conqueror.  

This was easily the biggest single upgrade yet! The cost increase, once factoring in the interconnect which we have to do to be fair, was not that much. But the performance improvement sure was! This was not just an upgrade. From Glider to Ruby was an upgrade. The motor stuff was upgrades. This was something entirely different. This was another realm.  

larry5729, you were asking about the cartridge? Now you have your answer: nope! A good arm is a greater upgrade than any cartridge. Dollar for dollar, put your money into a good arm. 

This was proven yet again later on when the Ruby was replaced with Koetsu Black Goldline. Yes indeed the Koetsu is a fine cartridge. Wonderful! Fricken love that thing! Totally. But really, it was just another upgrade. A nice one to be sure. Have we mentioned how much we love our Koetsu??! But where the arm was transformative, the cartridge was merely evolutionary.   

Always hard to objectively compare these things. Put it this way. The Graham 2.2 with Ted Denney custom IC and Koetsu, against the Conqueror with Benz Ruby, are pretty darn close in total cost. Just don't see anyone listening to them side by side picking the Koetsu. Not on that arm. Seriously doubt it would even be necessary to mount the Ruby. Probably everyone would pick the Glider on the Conqueror.  

The arm makes that much difference. When it is a good arm.  

@rauliruegas,
My question in this thread was more rhetorical in nature. I was simply stating I'm very happy with where I currently am with my system. I've make some minor tweaks along the way, but as I said, not sure what I'd change at the moment. Adding 1-2% improvement doesn't matter to me, diminishing returns for $1000's I'd rather invest elsewhere. I enjoyed what the OP (millercarbon) had to contribute, he obviously looks at every angle, which for him works and he enjoys taking his path. For me, that approach wouldn't work, but nonetheless I like reading about other people's perspectives and approaches. 

The rest of what you said in response to me was rambling, not sure what your point was. Also, if you need to read through previous posts of what people wrote to make a counterpoint, I'd suggest getting yourself another hobby in addition to music. Enjoy your tunes! 

Diminishing returns is more a phantom than a thing. More often than not all it means is doing the wrong thing. Because over the years it always has turned out doing the right thing is never a lot for a little, in fact it is usually quite the opposite.

So for example the motor was upgraded from the original pod to battery power and then a big $2500 jump to the Verus motor and controller. This was a diminishing return in the sense it was about what the platter, bearing and plinth cost, so nearly double the cost, but not double the performance. But on the other hand looking around, what other turntable was there that could be bought that would be better? 

So a good worthwhile improvement, but yes a diminishing return. However this was not the case when going from the Graham 2.2 to the Origin Live Conqueror Mk3. That improvement was huge! So there was no diminishing return. 

We could even go off-topic onto speakers, where Tekton Moab are far better speakers than the Talon Khorus they replaced, yet the incremental cost after selling the Khorus was so small no way it could be called diminishing. 

Same sort of thing again with the Raven Blackhawk (review to come) that cost more than the Melody integrated but is so much better no way it could be called diminishing return.

Sure everyone can find all kinds of overpriced stuff where the return is not only diminishing it is outright negative. All that does is prove my point. If the return is diminishing it is more likely due to some fault in system evaluation or component selection than some iron law of audio.

Have Netflix expressed any interest in running a serial?