Sell Me Your Women, Your Children, Your Vintage Turntable...

I don't buy a turntable to be beautiful. It has to work in all respects. I can understand being into antiques but not at the expense of performance. Idler wheel turntables rumble. If you rebuild them with amazing parts they will start rumbling in a few months and it will get worse as they age. It was the prime reason belt drive turntables took off but they are admittedly poor at slip "Q' ing. Radio stations got better and FM stereo required better, quieter turntables for commercial use which is where direct drive tables came in. Now you have all these old idler wheel tables lying around for cheap money and a few years and a bunch of mythology later they are the best performing turntables made....not. There is no way in 
h--l you are going to keep that many bearings quiet. Why do you all think the AR XA  took off so abruptly. You have to look at it in context of what was available at the time. Many of the best turntables made today mimic the XA's design in one or more ways.  It may have had a lousy tonearm but darn it was quiet and it did not feed back. All of the best turntables made today are belt drive. There are a few that dabble in idler and direct drive but it does not appear the market takes them seriously. 

So by all means stick with modern turntables they are better.  

@fsonicsmith Thanks. I can see the logic in your post. It makes sense. I can also relate to the pride in ownership that some of you vintage restoration folks have. The last post about spending $30k to realize a $12k value was such horse****

@rooze,

I bought a Lenco 78 about 6 years ago to do the Home Depot thread on Lenco Heaven.  After completing my first rebuild of all that Jean Nantais instructs you to do, My Lenco with the 10-layered 100 lb. plinth made of  3/4" birch plywood and MDF in both 1/2" and 3/4" thicknesses to vary the resonance with alternating the different materials until I had 10 layers and it was 7" thick--24"W x  20"D.  The sound has NO rumble and is quiet as any modern TT.  The torque of the Lenco is why it is the king of idlers.  Mine also has a copper platter on top of the Lenco platter that eliminates the ringing of the Lenco.  It has most all of Jean Nantais' mods and upgrades and some even he doesn't have.  I also like the OL arms for convenience of use and their lively sound.  I recently bought a used OL Illustrious MK II for under $900 in good shape.  It will be a big upgrade in sound.  I've had OL Silver II, Trans-Fi Terminator with all the upgrades, and Pete Riggle Woody arms.  All were good arms for sound, but the OL was the easiest to keep playing records with.  That is why I jumped on the Illustrious when I had the chance.  The modified Lenco with the OL Illustrious will be jumping good for dynamics, detail, transparency, and potent bass.  By the way, I had VPI Scout, then Classic, Avid Diva II, trying to at least equal the Maplenoll Ariadne air bearing arm/TT in SQ.  Nothing did it, until now with the Lenco rebuild and the OL Illustrious--much better dynamically, in live quality of the music, in reliability, and the sound of real live instruments.  This is compared to the Ariadne.  No contest with the others although they were easier to use and maintain.  Now I have the 2-piece chassis from Artisan Fidelity along with their copper platter, and the Walker Precision Motor Controller to keep precise speeds.  I was very patient in acquiring all these things and good them at about 40% of the list cost.  So even with the Charisma Reference II cartridge (used), I spent under $5000 for all of it.  I'd put it up against most any combo in SQ.  It did require much work on my part to get there, however.  It's not for everybody!  But I never did anything like this in my life before and I finally pulled it off with some patience.  

The one saying the cartridge is a big jump in performance MAY be right.

Bob 

Mijostyn said
"There is no way in h--l you are going to keep that many bearings quiet."
Huh? On my Russco that I'm restoring there is only one more bearing than my belt drive table. That extra bearing is the bronze bushing in the idler pulley.
Good idler tables like my Russco were expected to run 24/7 with a simple maintenance every 3 to 4 months so they were massively over built. 3/4" diameter main spindle bearing! Heavy cast aluminum chassis! The list goes on.
Ask oldhvymec, he can tell you as well.

BillWojo

Of course, anyone here knows I would disagree emphatically with much of what Mijostyn espouses, so I won't bother to point that out for the Nth time.  But I did want to remark upon his last line: "There are a few that dabble in idler and direct drive but it does not appear the market takes them seriously."  Without knowing the actually numbers, I would wager that the Technics 1200G, GR, and GAE combined, or possibly even singly, outsell any belt-drive turntable on the retail market.  So, whatever may be Mijo's opinion of direct-drive turntables, others DO take them seriously. And rightly so.