Old Amps that can still Kick Butt

This certainly has not been my experience. Starting in about 1980 when I took out my first loan to buy the then new revolutionary Pass designed Threshold 500. Then 20 years later after auditioning many amps and bought a Pass x350, which in every respect bested the Threshold (jaw droppingly so), and the switching over to an Audio Research Reference 160s. In each case the previous generation definitely could not kick butt in comparison to the new one... each generation has had much higher current... the butt kicking part). There would never be going back and a bit of nostalgia. Each generation has absolutely trounced the previous. Also, I think accounting for the time value of money, the investment I made in each amp was probably roughly the same.

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If the is a place you could feel an amp held up over time would be in a tube amp, where there was a certain sweetness (not accuracy) that was particularly appealing. Or if you are not actually appreciating better more accurate performance. Over the last fifty years solid state more closely approached the positive attributes of tube gear and tube gear more closely approached the position attributes of solid state gear, converging on best possible sound... as refinements in material science and component construction and selection will continue. I suppose the state of the art will level out at some point, but it sure has not yet.

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I guess it is great that some people feel this way. This is how I got the same price in trade in as I paid for my Pass x350 16 years earlier. I got a ridiculous amount of money back for my Threshold as well, on a sound / dollar basis.

ROWLAND 8T.

What @atmasphere said, +1.         I would add: there have also been major improvements in the materials and manufacturing of rectifiers, resistors and capacitors, since the late Eighties.

A lot of those old amps had (now obsolete) low noise high bandwidth Toshiba and Motorola transistors which are not easily matched with today's offering. The unavailability of those parts is the main reason why amp manufacturers refuse to work on thirty year old equipment. So an argument can be made that some of the old stuff were better than today's, but not as a general statement.

I'm still running a Creek 4140 integrated in my system. I thought it would be easy to get something that sounds better given that it only cost $550 in 1989, but that has not been the case. I think the reason it sounds good from the perspective of timing and ability to convey tonal color is its simple circuit design. I've been lucky not to need a lot of power and I've found that more powerful amplifiers often sound off in timing and veiled to me. Recent amplifiers I've listened to in my system are:

• PS Audio Stellar Strata integrated (class D): SQ feels artificial. Timing sounds off.
• Creek Evo 50: Sounds slow. Timing is off.
• Pathos Classic One: sound quality as well as the quality of the sound seems very close to the Creek. It's a bit smoother, but this difference was rendered moot by getting a new, smoother sounding DAC

There have been some amps that have sounded good to me. I think the common factor for most of what sounds good to me is simple circuit design. I think this simplicity helps in maintaining correct timing in music as well as ability to sound transparent and convey tonal color.

• The Sugden A21SE sounded quite good indeed. With its Class A design, I think it also has a simple circuit design.

• I've also got high hopes for a Belles Aria Integrated to sound better than my Creek. I was going to get one to try out, but a friend beat me to it. So I get to try it out in my system for free! The Belles also has a similar design philosophy of simplicity that seems to work well for my listening preferences.