3D lifelike sound and impeccable measurements - mutually exclusive???


The more I investigate gear the more it seems that it’s easy to get organic involving sound with flesh and body and a 3D immersive soundstage with the right matching of components but it also seems like it necessitates choosing some components that don’t measure well/add colorations/even order harmonics etc My question is are there components (specifically amps/preamps and integrateds) are out there that combine great measurements and in your mind also have that organic immersive sound that really helps many of us get more emotionally involved in the music or are these qualities mutually exclusive? 
128x128clarinetmonster2
It seems to me that a good soundstage is largely determined by loudspeakers, speaker positioning, and room acoustics. Less so by electronics (unless we’re talking about digital signal processing, maybe.) I’m not aware of any metrics that directly indicate soundstage size or holographic image quality.

So IMO the short answer to the OP’s question is "no", 3D lifelike sound and impeccable measurements are not mutually exclusive. But that is mainly because the measurements that are usually available seem to have little or no bearing on soundstage/imaging. Does a higher SNR ratio and "blacker background" have some positive impact on the soundstage/imaging? Probably. I don’t know how it would make things worse, everything else being equal (which rarely is the case).


Thanks it is also my experience.....

Does a higher SNR ratio and "blacker background" have some positive impact on the soundstage/imaging? Probably.
They impact more and partially the "timbre" experience and perception of the original event recorded by the engineer, but "timbre perception" "imaging" factor, and "listener envelopment" factor and other acoustical factors are linked to the way your actual room RECREATE the recorded acoustical settings in your own room for your ears and recreate the "original" atmosphere using your own room for the "translation" and this is given by real concrete acoustic controls by your specific ears , and not by the electronic design used in your gear only and " per se"...



Acoustic is the reality, Fourrier analysis is the map....

The map is not the reality... Why?

The reality contain and encompass the map, acoustic phenomena contains Fourrier analysis +your specific ears and many other ears.....

You can design knowledge or reduce knowledge to design, you cannot design feeling even with A.I. Only mimic it like map mimic some aspect of reality, sometimes essential one....

My mechanical equalizer, Helmholtz tubes and pipes,are PARTS of the pressure zones of my room....They ARE the room....They are positioned for my ears in this particular room and tuned by them not by frequency but by "timbre" perception ,that is to say by first wavefront perception....

An electronical equalizer is an external analysis of my room with an "ideal" mathematical perspective, modulo Fourrier analysis and "precise tested frequency response used one by one with a mic., for an "ideal" listener that do not exist, the seating location is a millimeter spot and out of it, all run acoustically "amok".....


This is only my limited experience, and no, i am not a scientist, only a listener.....Feel free to correct me....






«If the map is in my head, and if my my ass is in the reality where is my body ? »-Groucho Marx


The way I look at this is that any journey has to start somewhere. This hobby is a journey and you have to enjoy every step of that journey also knowing there will be mistakes and frustrations just like life. Then as your journey is progressing you will realize that your journey has no end. You can map it out the best you can but will have many many detours. Measurements are a good starting place but only one small part of the overall equation to get the sound you want. Trade offs will be another component. X=[y+Zxq] but y+z is better minus q. Then you get there and you hear someone else’s system and you are blown away and realize that X is not X but it is Y=[x-z+q] and you start your search for Y and this takes you back to your starting place of measurements. Enjoy the journey and most of all enjoy the music!
It seems to me that a good soundstage is largely determined by loudspeakers, speaker positioning, and room acoustics.


Don't forget the recording. You can't play back what is not there, but you can create a false but pleasing result. Is it lifelike? No. Does that matter? Also no.

are there components (specifically amps/preamps and integrateds) are out there that combine great measurements and in your mind also have that organic immersive sound that really helps many of us get more emotionally involved in the music or are these qualities mutually exclusive
@clarinetmonster2  No. But which harmonics are dominant in the distortion signature is important. They should be either the 2nd and 3rd or just the 3rd, in sufficient amount (with respect to the higher orders) to mask the presence of the higher ordered harmonics.
They aren't mutually exclusive but I'd say measurements will get you closer than your ears alone.