Balanced vs. Unbalanced Inputs


I am trying to upgrade to a differentially balanced phono stage to compliment my Pass XP-22 pre and Pass X250.8 amp so as to minimize long cable artifacts and benefit from CMR. I do understand the it is the circuitry and not the input connection that determines wether a signal is balanced or not. I am looking at both a Pass XP-27 and AR Phono 3SE as possible options. Both have RCA inputs plus a ground post only. No XLR inputs. 

As far as my understanding goes, a balanced cable must have 2 signal conductors, a hot (+) and a cold (-) PLUS a ground for EACH channel. So, I sent an email to Pass Labs as follows:  

 ".... I want to confirm that there are TWO signal conductors PLUS a ground for each channel. Specifically, on each of     the RCA inputs, do the center pins and the shields carry the hot (+) and cold (-) signals respectively while the grounding wire/grounding post becomes the tone arm/turntable chassis ground connection common to BOTH channels? "

This was the response:
     "No. RCA shield and ground lug are contiguous connections."

But on the pass website is the following:
     "In order to minimize ground loop issues Pass Labs never manufactures equipment with signal ground and chassis ground contiguous."

When I email Linn about their pseudo balanced  LP12 T cable they responded with:
     "All Linn arm cables are terminated with a 5 pin DIN connector with the center pin being arm ground, which on an LP12 is also used as the chassis ground.  This is separate from the left and right channel grounds and hots which are on the other 4 pins."

Again, there is no (+) signal to be superimposed with an inverted (-) signal separate from ground for CMR. I Do have a technical background but I am not well versed on circuit design so please forgive my ignorance. I did get some very helpful advice from a member here, however, the further I inquired with the manufacturers the more confusing it became. As of now I am wary about emailing AR for fear of even more confusion. If anyone has any advice on how to proceed I would really appreciate it. Thank you all so much.

Bruce
brskie
It seems wrong that getting the benefits of running fully balanced should be such an uncertain adventure.
+1 Sure got that right. The point of the standard was/is plug and play.
"Quite a lot of high end audio hardware has XLR connectors and are not balanced at all; the connectors are there for convenience only."

What would be convenience in these cases?

I do have XLR-connected (for the lack of better understanding of what I really have) CD player to amplifier. All is quiet on that front, but now heaven knows if and to what level it is balanced and what standard, if any, it conforms to. It is really not what many would consider high-end to begin with so all odds are off.

In any case, interesting read, even somewhat understandable for dummies like me. Thank you guys.


Hi @glupson, given what atmasphere says about wiring behind the XLRs in many amps, perhaps rather than for convenience, the XLRs are there for show.

It seems to me that guys like John Atkinson should report on 'balanced' amps that are not actually wired balanced and/or do not conform with AES48 just like he reports on speakers that are 4dB less sensitive than the manufacturer's spec.  We want to ensure manufacturers are honest with their specs and that those who are not are exposed.
jaytor324 posts01-04-2021 11:26pmRCA connectors can't carry a balanced signal. You need to use cables with XLR connectors to support balanced. That's wrong. If you have a cable with a foil (conductor) shield you can convert and use the shield for the neutral.

I have Pass XA60.8 amps.  I have tried somewhat expensive SE cables and somewhat expensive XLR to my Allnic L-7000 pre-amp and to me the XLR carries more weight, clarity and enjoyment but I have gone thru several upgrades in gear and think I will try it again.  Allnics' top Pre-amp is SE an way above my price point.
I wonder if the benefits of SE vs XLR are system dependent.  Very well designed systems with well designed (AKA Expensive) gear is likely to be very quiet/low noise and allow the benefits of SE to shine.  In other systems like mine the benefits of noise control are more apparent/important and results in an overall impression of benefits.  As  Ivor Tiefenbrun fo Linn said;  "Garbage in, garbage out" and the noise on a lower level system is just being amplified.