Speaker recommendation $10-20K (with some requirements!)


Recent lessons of the developing audiophile:


  • Don’t buy speakers without demonstration

  • Speaker break in is real...but will not fundamentally change DNA

  • Really appreciate the wisdom of this forum!


I recently changed my old B&W Matrix 803 Series 2 with new Dynaudio Countour 60i’s. A number of you helped on my: How important is speaker break-in? post - thanks! The Dyn’s are not fully broken in, but I think I can see where this is going: They have great soundstage, detail, and bass. In comparison, the B&Ws sound smaller, thinner, slightly less detailed overall, and do not throw big bass. (The B&W’s are supplemented nicely with a quality subwoofer, but that still sounds a little more like component parts stitched together, than the way the Dyn’s deliver an integrated output).  


The problem? The Dyn’s are hard in the mids and highs, and my (aging) ears are very sensitive to that. I have some tinnitus that I usually don’t notice...unless a hard or ringing sound sets it off, and these speakers are doing it big time. Immediately fatiguing (unless the recording is just somebody plucking at a bass guitar). The B&Ws are pretty sweet in the mid-range and most recordings don’t trip my hard/edgy line. So, I WILL go demo before buying this time, but I am hoping this group can help narrow the search a bit, and I am letting budget drift up if that helps get it done. Here are constraints and goals, and equipment:


*Absolutely must be smooth and silky - not hard, edgy, ringing, brittle, etc. - in the mids and highs. Ironically, I tend to listen mostly to heavier music, but I care mostly about sweet and detailed delivery of delicate sounds, like vocals and piano. For say, heavy metal, I don’t care if the system reproduces it perfectly, only that it tilts away from ragged, ringing tones as much as possible.


*After that, I want a big, authoritative sound with meaningful bass, detail - everything one would want in a speaker, but compromises can be made.  


*Room Treatments. Room is medium size, does not have treatments, and it is what it is. It is not a dedicated audio room, so I can’t start throwing stuff up on the walls (WAF). (The room does have the benefit of being wood floor applied directly to concrete (with a rug), so at least the floor doesn’t resonate. And it has 2 layers of sheetrock in places). I will live with my room compromises, but the sound coming out the speakers themselves does matter and I want to focus on that.


*Prefer tower style for aesthetics and fit, but open to boxy (e.g. Harbeth) if that’s where I need to go.  


* Equipment: All digital inputs to ARC DAC 8 -> ARC Ref5se preamp -> Bryston 7BSST2 monoblocks (600W). I get that the whole system matters, and that Brystons are supposed to be a little hard. But this problem really started with the new speakers, so that is where I am focusing. If you really think different amps or something are going to turn the Dynaudio’s silky sweet in the mids and high, please say that with some conviction and support.


As always, really appreciate the greater knowledge of this community!



mathiasmingus
@mathiasmingus

Sorry to get off topic, but I couldn't help but noticing that you are using an ARC Ref 5SE linestage with your Bryston.  Being a longtime ARC owner, I surmise you may be presenting too low a load to the Ref 5SE.  

John Atkinson bench tested your amp and reported that:

The balanced input impedance was 10k ohms across the audioband; the unbalanced stayed close to a moderately low 7.5k ohms at low and middle frequencies, dropping a little, to 7.2k ohms, at 20kHz.
See www DOT stereophile.com/content/bryston-7b-sstsup2sup-monoblock-power-amplifier-measurements.

In contrast, ARC recommends that the minimum load should not be less than 20K ohms.  In particular:  

OUTPUT IMPEDANCE

600 ohms Balanced, 300 ohms SE main (2), 20K ohms minimum load and 2000pF maximum capacitance
See www DOT arcdb.ws/model/REF5.

I am not sure how much this loading issue affects the SQ of what comes out of your rig.  That said, I suspect that the Bryston's 10K load may cause the Ref 5SE's low end to roll off a bit.  Not sure what impact the load may have on the top end.

Perhaps some of out techie A'gon members can weigh in.

BIF


@bifwynne Good catch Bif. I do believe that the primary (and perhaps only) consequence will be low frequency roll-off, but worth an email to ARC to find out for sure. 
Dyanudios are opposite of harsh in my experience.  Maybe the new versions have changed??
My tinnitus is around 12k... Sopra’s worked for me brilliantly with no listener fatigue on McIntosh gear. 
@mathiasmingus--lots of recommendations to ponder--my 2 cents:

1.agree with @chorus & others--start with room treatment for harsh highs/mids--easier to address and absolutely necessary before changing speakers
2. Those Bryston amps are powerful but are you absolutely sure they are not clipping at the volume you listen ?  I'm guessing with hard rock you listen loud?  A cheap oscilloscope will tell you--amp clipping will increase harshness in highs/mids