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Anyone ditch the sub after large speaker purchase?

I am about to kick the subs to the curb. Having recently acquired a pair of custom made Classic Audio Loudspeakers T1.5 reference, they provide me with enough deep and articulate bass that I don’t even bother with using subs anymore. I mean prodigious amounts of bass...not the bass that is just heard, but also felt, even in the rear listening chairs at the back of the room, which is almost 30 feet away. It feels like I have subs with these new speakers.


Yeah, it’s when playing loud that the rear end of the room is so vigorously energized...and not because of nasty room acoustic anomalies, the seats pick up the pressurized air due to the room being pressurized with 300 tube watts per channel driving highly efficient field coil horn speakers with 18 inch downward firing bass driver and 15 inch forward firing bass driver.


In almost 25 years of sub use and integration with various systems, I find that my newly customized room designed around the principals of room mode mitigation, noise abatement, and damping resonances based on my experience in building secure sound proof spaces, has paid off.


There is nothing like playing music at low levels or loud levels with clarity and preciseness in bass when the stars are aligned and that is why I don’t feel the need for subs anymore. My bass is so awesome with these large almost 400 pound speakers and my amps enjoy driving them to room shaking levels if I played loud enough. Of course, the room investment itself was a considerable factor in my positive listening experience which at Its core is concrete all the way around except the ceiling.


When I stream music, I have to actually turn down the bass of the audio settings in my streamers audio settings. When playing vinyl, the bass goes so deep that I felt as if the subs were on, when in fact, they are not. I am tired or messing around with measurements and dialing in subs for now. It’s not needed and I see why people with large speakers don’t have subs. Perhaps, later on in this audio journey, I might experiment with some type of bass resonators, but I ask myself why? I have all what I need and am not missing anything in terms of bass.


Anyone else ditch the subs after large speaker purchase? What’s been your experiences?
audioquest4life
audioquest4life OP
727 posts
 
@helomech1,

”Unfortunately, the bass sections of many full-range speakers are dismal compared to a quality sub, both the drivers and cabinet sections. You’re getting into $10K/pair speakers before the bass sections will match the quality of even a $600 sub”

While we agree that many lower cost speakers lack uniform and deep bass and that subs certainly help in those cases, remember that large high efficient speakers mated with the proper equipment can excel in deep, fast, and accurate bass reproduction. That’s my point since I have speakers like that, I no longer feel the need for subs as my speakers, and others with similar technologies can play deep bass well enough without worrying about that last iota of bass...been there done that. It is not as simple as saying thou shall must have subs because...it’s a matter of the efficiency of the equation of the room, electronics, and speakers. That’s where I am at, an sufficient level of performance that negates the use of subs for my applications. But, as many have stated, subs are most likely needed if you can’t get the ingredients right. 
helomech
1,525 posts
 
While we agree that many lower cost speakers lack uniform and deep bass and that subs certainly help in those cases, remember that large high efficient speakers mated with the proper equipment can excel in deep, fast, and accurate bass reproduction. That’s my point since I have speakers like that, I no longer feel the need for subs as my speakers, and others with similar technologies can play deep bass well enough without worrying about that last iota of bass...been there done that. It is not as simple as saying thou shall must have subs because...it’s a matter of the efficiency of the equation of the room, electronics, and speakers. That’s where I am at, an sufficient level of performance that negates the use of subs for my applications. But, as many have stated, subs are most likely needed if you can’t get the ingredients right.




The problem with nearly all high-efficiency bass apparatuses is they lack extension. There may be some exceptions out there but I’m not aware of any non-custom speakers short of six figures that really fall into that category. Maybe some Tektons?? Wilsons are a good example of an otherwise efficient speaker (relatively good sensitivity) if not for the tough load of their bass woofers. Unfortunately, the excursion required for the lowest notes results in an inefficient driver, which is why many speaker designers choose to use active/powered bass systems. Speakers that extend to ~35Hz are often referred to as “full-range,” but they’re not really if we’re honest. I’m not saying they can’t be enjoyed without subs, only that they can still be enhanced with a well implemented sub. IME, the lowest two bass octaves do enhance the rest of the bandwidth for some reason, and can greatly improve sound-staging cues.

Your custom 400lb. behemoths are outliers, obviously.

There’s nothing wrong with living without subs if that’s one’s thing. I guess my point is that if someone is seeking full-range sound on a budget, it’s often better to get high-quality standmounts with stereo subs, as you end up with better quality bass sections than those found in some $10K/pair^ towers, and you also get true full-range extension (assuming a quality sub).
steve59's avatar
steve59
1,663 posts
 
My stereo speakers have 3 pair of side mounted powered 8” woofers each that manage full range without the integration problems I had with subs. I even had a velodyne that came with a volume remote so I could adjust the sub level with the speakers level. I found my favorite sub setting was when I couldn’t hear it. They’re great for ht, but give me a pair of full range floorstanders for stereo any day.
mrklas
441 posts
 
My answer is 'kind of'...

When I decided to create separate home theatre and audio systems I built the system with full range floor standers with the intention of not having subwooofers.

Therefore I have a pair of Sonus farber Sonnetto Vs I use in my audio system.  The decision for no subs is based on several considerations including space, budget and my younger days of listening to music before subwoofers were common.

And my results are I enjoy listening to music as much as I always have. 
johnk's avatar
johnk
1,973 posts
 
My mains use 18" woofers and are over 1000lbs ea and I still use my giant sub-bass horn from time to time. I will turn the massive near room sized sub off thinking I don't need it but later I find I do depends on music selections but when I need it I am glad it's there, nothing pressurizes a space like a giant sub-bass horn.
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