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Anyone ditch the sub after large speaker purchase?

I am about to kick the subs to the curb. Having recently acquired a pair of custom made Classic Audio Loudspeakers T1.5 reference, they provide me with enough deep and articulate bass that I don’t even bother with using subs anymore. I mean prodigious amounts of bass...not the bass that is just heard, but also felt, even in the rear listening chairs at the back of the room, which is almost 30 feet away. It feels like I have subs with these new speakers.


Yeah, it’s when playing loud that the rear end of the room is so vigorously energized...and not because of nasty room acoustic anomalies, the seats pick up the pressurized air due to the room being pressurized with 300 tube watts per channel driving highly efficient field coil horn speakers with 18 inch downward firing bass driver and 15 inch forward firing bass driver.


In almost 25 years of sub use and integration with various systems, I find that my newly customized room designed around the principals of room mode mitigation, noise abatement, and damping resonances based on my experience in building secure sound proof spaces, has paid off.


There is nothing like playing music at low levels or loud levels with clarity and preciseness in bass when the stars are aligned and that is why I don’t feel the need for subs anymore. My bass is so awesome with these large almost 400 pound speakers and my amps enjoy driving them to room shaking levels if I played loud enough. Of course, the room investment itself was a considerable factor in my positive listening experience which at Its core is concrete all the way around except the ceiling.


When I stream music, I have to actually turn down the bass of the audio settings in my streamers audio settings. When playing vinyl, the bass goes so deep that I felt as if the subs were on, when in fact, they are not. I am tired or messing around with measurements and dialing in subs for now. It’s not needed and I see why people with large speakers don’t have subs. Perhaps, later on in this audio journey, I might experiment with some type of bass resonators, but I ask myself why? I have all what I need and am not missing anything in terms of bass.


Anyone else ditch the subs after large speaker purchase? What’s been your experiences?
audioquest4life
rajugsw
196 posts
 
I ditched my Subs after getting a pair of KEF 105/3’s. Using a miniDSP to replicate the original Bass EQ curve and boost points from a Magazine article from 30 years ago. I was shocked how deep the Bass went into the 30Hz region in my room with no issues !

For watching movies though, I leaned how tired those old Woofers are. Next year, I plan on replacing those 8" Woofers with Dayton Audio (Parts Expresshttps://www.parts-express.com/dayton-audio-rss210ho-8-8-reference-ho-subwoofer-8-ohm--295-459) . No Res as well and get rid of any cabinet resonances.

Since I’m never going to sell these since I’ve modified the Hell out them (I just love the quirky design).
lalitk's avatar
lalitk
5,104 posts
 
+1, ricred1 & big_greg.

I have yet to hear a full range speaker with ‘passive’ bass woofers that can replicate the experience of a well integrated subwoofer.

An average user may have this notion that subwoofers are being added to simply extend bass response. IME, a well designed and integrated subwoofers (with your mains) provides a sense of scale and dynamics superior to any full range speakers on their own. A pair of subwoofers in a acoustically treated room (like mine) provides the most realistic and engaging musical fidelity that is simply unmistakable. 
helomech
1,526 posts
 
Unfortunately, the bass sections of many full-range speakers are dismal compared to a quality sub, both the drivers and cabinet sections. You’re getting into $10K/pair speakers before the bass sections will match the quality of even a $600 sub.

 Then add the fact that with full range speakers, the amplifier is taxed with driving the bass woofers as well as the mids and tweeters. High-passing the mains and relieving their amp of the 3 lowest octaves has the same effect of doubling, maybe even tripling the amplifier power. 

Also, there’s an advantage in being able to place the bass drivers somewhere other than the same plane as the mids and tweets. This is because the optimal room placement for the mids and highs is often a compromise for the bass freqs, due to their omnidirectional nature and long wavelengths.
The downside to subs is of course integration with the mains. I find it’s much easier with a 4th-order, active crossover between the subs and mains amplifier, something similar to the JL CR-1.
wlutke
717 posts
 
On a practical note, I listen to internet radio and having adjustable bass is a must.  Stations can be broadcast  too lean or too fat.  
audioquest4life OP
727 posts
 
@helomech1,

”Unfortunately, the bass sections of many full-range speakers are dismal compared to a quality sub, both the drivers and cabinet sections. You’re getting into $10K/pair speakers before the bass sections will match the quality of even a $600 sub”

While we agree that many lower cost speakers lack uniform and deep bass and that subs certainly help in those cases, remember that large high efficient speakers mated with the proper equipment can excel in deep, fast, and accurate bass reproduction. That’s my point since I have speakers like that, I no longer feel the need for subs as my speakers, and others with similar technologies can play deep bass well enough without worrying about that last iota of bass...been there done that. It is not as simple as saying thou shall must have subs because...it’s a matter of the efficiency of the equation of the room, electronics, and speakers. That’s where I am at, an sufficient level of performance that negates the use of subs for my applications. But, as many have stated, subs are most likely needed if you can’t get the ingredients right. 
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