Dear @neonknight and FRIENDS : its easy to get the paddle too deep into the reservoir and the end result is a lifeless sound that is lacking harmonic texture and decay........... But a light touch of the paddle into the silicone results in improved tracking ""
First that " LIFELESS " issue. I really have " thousands " of first hand experiences with almost any kind of damping in almost all the room/system and certainly I detected sevarl times that " lifeless or dullness " kind of sound after changes in damping and even after made changes for better audio items in the system. Let me explain about:
through those experiences I learned that transducers, as speakers and cartridges, are not only the ones that needs damping but that are way sensible to any kind of damping, the transducers always shows a response to damping.
Loudspeakers: really sensitive audio item and for extreme good reasons designers try that the " takls " boxes been as inert as the " dead silence ".
We can listen, example , Magico ones and even listening at over 95dbs SPL at seat position if we touch the box you can " feel " almost nothing. What " speaks " in the Magico or YG are the drivers as always should be but not always achieved.
My speakers are really old design and when I learned through the years I started to damp it in several ways and always was and is for the better:
first it has " three hands " ( internally ) of a insulation/antivibrational treatment ( like a white paint. I can't remember the ingredients. ) from Acoustical Magic Company ( it works marvelous ) inside all the box , to do that I had to take out all the speaker drivers including the internal wires and croosovers.
Second I change the internal damping glass fiber by 10kg ( each speaker ) of long hair 100% virgin wool and change the fabric cloth of the grille for a " transparent one ".
Third: Both speakers have at the box external rear-center the Antiresonant Vibration System by MICROSCAN model TM-8 that works from 20hz to 1.5Khz.
Finally: I take out the crossover ( now is external ) and change all the parts: resistors ( Powertron by Vishay. ), all silver air core solid ribbon ( 5.5 cms. of pure silver. Almost 2kg. of silver in the bigest one. ) Alpha-Core inductors , WIMA FKP 1 and KEMET caps in the crossover, the speakers cables goes soldered directly to the crossover parts. This speaker crossover is tri-hard-wired from the amps output to the 3-way crossover parts and speaker drivers.
All those was and is for damping and additional to that at the external box top " plate " I put 20kg of dead weigth.
This same kind of added weigth damping I do it with both subwoofers where have 40kg. dead weigth at its box top plate.
CARTRIDGES: well there is not cartridge as a stand alone audio item cartridge and tonearm is one and only one audio item and here damping is need it no matters what and for very good reasons:
this is a Nicola Tesla statement that we can use it in this thread:
" If you want to find the secrets in the Universe,thinks in terms of Energy, Frequency and VIBRATIONS. "
I own or owned almost any cartridge designed: LOMC, MM, MI, Electrostatic, Starin Gaugage, etc.,etc, with all kind of compliance/weigth combinations with all kind of cantilever materials/stylus tip shapes and in all kind of cartridge body materials and at the same time I own or owned almost all designed tonearms: vintage, today, unipivots, LT or gimball ones builded with all materials you can imagine and some very well damped and other not well damped and many in between these extremes.
The first top tonearm with paddle I owned was the great Micro Seiki MAX-282/237 that comes with 3 different removable arm wands and with 2 different silicon viscosity for the paddle and with a list which viscosity level silicon mated with which cartridges.
I used for several months with out the damp silicon paddle and one day I decided to use it and what I listened just did not like me.
What listened I in those old times trhough it?, exactly what neonknight posted: LIFELESS and DULL sound.
I can't listened any more and forgoted about the dampening issue, for me was not only not need it but gone against the listening experiences.
Same experience with my Audiocraft tonearm but here I had to use the oil at the bearing cup due that this unipivot design just need it but if I use a little higher down there MUSIC will sound: lifeless and dull.
Through the years my room/system improved a lot tilll today extremely high resolution one and through all those years I learned a lot too of overall home MUSIC Audio reproduction and one issue I learned is the need of damping in the whole analog rig it does not matters if the cartridge/tonearm combination resonance frequency is 10hz.
My first lessons about changes/damping for the better where when in the started tests of those changes that lifeless appeared and was when I changed IC cables and what I did it was not to come back to the original cables but I gave TIME to the new sound through more listening sessions because even in my first reaction was that the SPLs ( with out touching the volume attenuator. ) goes down !
What I learned there and thank's to my self developed test evaluation process was that I not even losted SPL but what I losted and that was the " culprit " of that LIFELESS were the distortion levels that gone way lower and from the " life " came: false life because was for the higher distortion levels.
This kind of experience repeated in my audio life in my system and other gentlemans systems till today. So that LIFELESS dos not exist if what we do is really an improvement.
Here at Agon a well know member @halcro years agoposted in a thread that using the after market AT vacuum hold down LP as a platter mat makes the sound Lifeless and dull what certainly it does not happens that way because I still own at least 2 of those AT items and makes an improvement due not only its damping effect but because flatness characteristic in almost any LP.
@ebm answer my question when posted:
""
When the sound closes down then it is to much damping.When i had tonearms with damping trow i used as little fluid just so it touched the paddle. ""
I don't agree with him if what he try to says is that that " sound closes down " means something as " lifeless/dullness ".
All our room/systems have different quality level performance and different resolution levels, so what you can hear maybe other gentleman can't do it or listened in way different manner.
In some way I agree that the silicon damping issue is a " test and error " subject.
In my first hand experiences higher damping levels the better not lower as " possible " as some of you posted.
Silicon dampinghigh levels always is welcomed till impedes the natural tonearm vertical/horizontal movements.
Please do it a favor and look this:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=y_OUkLbSs24 ( at minute: 2.18. )
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mYE67fVny4chttps://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NMG59yxJGfshttps://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xLmpkPjkozshttps://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GuCdsyCWmt8&app=desktop ( at the begining few seconds. )
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=J4_GYfPZfq0https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YbQugDDaemQWe can see several things, first of them is the way very hard task the stylus tip has to ride those tortuose groove modulations, cartridge/tonearm job should be really fenomenal for been faithful to the groove modulations information recorded there the other thing we can see is that the stylus tip ridding is almost " out of its control " almost at " random " as the self cartridge tracking habilities permits it.
And it's these critical microscopic out of control stylus tip movements the ones that must and should be " tamed " to lower the developed distortions/to lower the additional non recorded movements and for the stylus tip pick up a higher true groove modulations.
The developed forces down there are almost imposible to " tame " it the record speed/spin and inertia movements along those forces makes the silicon damping paddle the only option to improve that traking and at a result we will has better quality level performance.
All those info here is only my opinion and if you have a better solution to lower those almost " out of control " movements then please share with us
. For my part I'm always willing to change for something better in any audio subject.
Btw,
@tomic601 is rigth when posted:
"
Everything is a bell "
Regards and enjoy the MUSIC NOT DISTORTIONS,
R.
