High Output Preamp for First Watt SIT-3?


I'm new to the audiophile world and recently purchased a First Watt SIT-3 with Magnepan .7s.  I have a Mytek Brooklyn Bridge for streaming, though I prefer to play vinyl with my Mofi Ultradeck.  The Mytek serves as the phono stage (69dB gain for MM?), and I don't use a preamp;  the Brooklyn is connected directly to the First Watt. 

I understand that the SIT-3 is only 11.5 dB of gain, and that's extremely low compared to most amps.  I like most everything about the system except for the fact that I have the Mytek maxed out volume-wise many days.  Certain LPs are cut quieter, and I wish I had more power.  There are times streaming where the Maggies aren't getting to their sweet spot.  I realize the Maggies are a lower sensitivity speaker. 

What should I look for in a preamp to fully drive the SIT-3?  Eventually, I'd like to replace the phono stage instead of relying on the Brooklyn.  Is there a tube preamp featuring a phono stage with sufficient output to drive my amp in the $4k range?  Otherwise, I'm eyeing the Modwright PH 9.0 and a linestage preamp, realizing that this will probably be costlier.  I'm looking for a warm sound, not analytical but engaging. 

Any help is greatly appreciated.  I'm a working musician with a basic understanding of related electronics but little experience in this world. 

murphbass

Here is an analysis of approximately how much of the amp’s power capability can and can’t be utilized in this situation when playing LPs, based on the cartridge’s rated output and the gain structure of the system:

Stereophile measured the gain of the SIT-3 as being 11.3 db, which corresponds to a voltage multiplication of 3.67x. For an amp having that gain to provide an output of 30 watts into 4 ohms, which corresponds to 10.95 volts, an input of 10.95/3.67 = 2.98 volts is required.

Mytek’s description of the Brooklyn Bridge states that “Brooklyn Bridge is identical to Brooklyn DAC+ in terms of audio circuits and performance but has the addition of a built-in Network Streamer.”

Stereophile’s review of the Brooklyn DAC+ states that “the DAC+’s feature set, which includes MQA and a built-in moving-magnet/moving-coil phono stage, is largely the same as the original Brooklyn’s.”

Therefore it appears likely that for MM phono cartridges the Brooklyn Bridge provides gain that is similar to what Stereophile measured for the Brooklyn DAC, namely 55.6 db. That corresponds to a voltage multiplication of 603x.

As stated above Murph’s cartridge has a rated output under the standard test conditions of 3 mv. A gain of 55.6 db will boost that to 0.003 x 603 = 1.81 volts, **if the volume control is at max.** That of course falls well short of the 2.98 volt input the amp requires to be driven to full power.

Since for a given load impedance power is proportional to voltage squared, the percentage of the amp’s 30 watt/4 ohm rating that is being used when the cartridge is supplying its rated output, and the volume control is at max, is:

(1.81/2.98) x (1.81/2.98) = 0.37 = 37% (!)

The corresponding power supplied by the amp when the cartridge is supplying its rated output is 0.37 x 30 watts = 11.1 watts (!!). Meaning that almost 2/3 of the amp’s power capability can’t be used for many recordings without additional gain being provided.

The peaks of various recordings can of course be either somewhat greater than or somewhat less than the standard LP test conditions. But this analysis appears consistent with Murph’s observation that there isn’t enough gain in the setup to support LPs which aren’t “hot.”

And given his earlier statement that he is “on the cusp of where I want to be” it seems to me that replacing the speaker or the amp is not necessarily called for, despite the mismatch in power capability. If neither of those things is done, what is called for is providing additional gain between the Brooklyn Bridge and the amp. 12 db or so should be adequate. The simple one-tube line stage I linked to earlier provides a gain of 22 db.

Best regards,

--Al


Mglik, ,
You make some very compelling points. When all is said and done subjectivity rules. You have to choose what ’you’ feel sounds best and provides the most enjoyment and satisfaction,. Murphbass says he’s on the "cusp" of what he wants with his current audio system make up. So it’s quite conceivable that the addition of system signal gain could put him where he wants to be. We are discussing what ’he’ wants.

With the right cartridge (which Al has asked about and rightly so) the suggestions posted here of various high gain preamplifier/line stages could be the solution in this specific scenario. I have to acknowledge that from murphbass’ perception (not mind or anyone else) he is quite close to his objective.
Charles
Don’t look down on Klipsch. I have owned Martin Logan stats and my Maggie 1.7is are sitting in a box. I had a 200 watt amp when I was using the Maggies. Right now I am using Klipsch Heresy IVs with the Pass Xa-25 with a c-j ET3se. Sound is more solid and dynamic. Very musical! BTW would love to try your Sit-3🙊
Hi Al,
As soon as I posted I saw your response, you beat me by a minute. It seems that we have reached similar conclusions (😊)  regarding gain versus more power to drive the Maggie. 7 speakers. 
Charles 
Mglik-
Great info.  Quads have always been on the 'list.'  There's a lengthy thread on the Hoffman forums about which amps make them 'sing' that I bookmarked yesterday but have yet to read.  Does 'sand' refer to silicon and transistors, the graininess of solid state or something else?

I was a working musician until the coronavirus cleared my calendar.  Fortunately, I'm also an essential worker.  The Maggies don't reproduce the lowest octave(s), but in some sense, it is the truest representation of acoustic and electric bass I've heard.  My audiophile friends tease me about being a bassist yet not getting the support from my system. 

Greg-  I was hoping to hear from someone with the .7s and SIT-3.  Encouraging to know that you are liking that setup with a good preamp to match.  Similar room, too!