It looks like a debate to me.

And the ear brain is highly sensitive to time and phase... no debate there either... ha

Hi @tomic601

I hate to be the spoil sport here, but I know I'm not that sensitive, and experts I trust also say this.

I believe some people are very sensitive to this issue, but I've never heard a time/phase accurate speaker wow me just because of that.

I point you to this article, which has three different experts on the subject:

https://audioxpress.com/article/zero-phase-in-studio-monitors

Like I said, I know I can't hear this, maybe others can, but I don't think those who can are the majority.

Best,

E

I will argue that we are also more susceptible to damping factor and speaker/cable impedance than we think we are, but I, in a very lage part, agree with Ralphs point, that the distortion profile is probably a large, large factor in likeability.

About that- amplifiers are far and away out in front of speakers in terms of development. One problem here is that no speaker needs more than about 20:1 for a damping ratio (not 'factor' mind you- 'ratio') and many solid state amps have far more than that, resulting in a coloration many audiophiles like called 'tight bass', something that does not seem to exist in the real world.

Roger M RM-9 has 3 feedback settings so you can dial into what your ear brian likes in a 3D world....

Not to put too fine a point on it but it can be seen as obvious that none of the settings would be correct. The RM-9 simply didn't have the gain or bandwidth to support enough feedback to really do the job properly. So any of the settings would have been a compromise.


We used to put similar amounts of feedback in our amps back 30-40 years ago, only to find that it did terrible things to the soundstage and tonality.


You can look at the deliterious effects of feedback on a Bell curve. A small amount of feedback does little damage but has little effect too- no more than about 2-3 dB. 12-20 dB is in the peak of the Danger Zone; so you will experience increasing brightness and harshness from about 4dB up to that point; above 20dB the harshness and brightness heads back to 'normal' but since very few amps have in excess of 35dB essentially 99 44/100s of all amps that run feedback will have a coloration of brightness and will be harsher than real life.

If you've ever wondered why two amps can measure flat on the bench but one is bright and the other isn't, this is why.

Erik - of corse there is a lot more than time and phase... pistonic drivers, low diffraction, impulse, energy storage in the cone and cabinet, reflections from the magnet structure, the list is long ... like a series and patents since 1977

Ralph - yes of course, three positions all incorrect. And they all measure different. RM like you was about learning, the RM9 evolved to MK2, so on. I think some of your  amps are on MK3.3 ?

 My reference amp has single ended output, 5 parts in the signal path, no emitter resistors, no global feedback , liquid cooling, analog circuits for bias and pump control , mechanical truss isolation, ten regulated supplies... and alas is as all things made by man, imperfect.